Whiney noise

Post by **katiekat** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:42 pm

Hi everyone.

We went out today for a day out in the country. When we were nearly there we noticed that there was a loud whiney noise in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear but not in fourth. There was also the occasional rattle which sounded a bit like a couple of loose nuts in a tin can.

Molly the mog drove fine though but I was a bit worried that something major might fail.

Does anyone know what this might be?

Thanks a lot!

Kate

Post by **MarkyB** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:25 pm

First thing to check has to be the oil level.
Top gear is direct drive so doesn't involve the lay shaft gears.

Post by **katiekat** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:34 pm

Thanks. I just checked the oil level and it's near the max mark. Does the oil level have to be on max?

Post by **alex_holden** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:38 pm

It's the gearbox oil level you need to check. There is a rubber bung on the left hand side of the transmission tunnel, near the gearstick. Under there is a plug. Unscrew that and check that the oil is up to the level of the bottom of the threads. If you need to top it up, use ordinary 20-50 engine oil.

Post by **alainmoran** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:04 pm

When you top up your gearbox, try to ensure that you are doing it on level ground or you may end up with a false reading.

Its also worth looking at the underside of the car near the point where the drive-shaft connects to the gearbox, you are looking for a stripe of oil at right-angles to the shaft (where it has been spun off while the car is in motion)

If after refilling the stripe gets worse then you may need a new oil seal ... its also worth noting the oil seal may have been caused to fail by damaged bearings in the gearbox - if this is the case a new seal may not last long.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:05 pm

Lack of oil is the most likely explanation. But if it's been run like that for a while - there may now be some damage to the box. I would drain it off - and refill with new oil - 20/50 or 10/40 is fine.

Post by **katiekat** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:34 pm

I've topped it up and it seems a lot better now. I will test her properly tomorrow. She was standing in a garage for a year and only got a good run out today.

If she did need a new gearbox, would that be expensive?

Thanks for all the excellent advice!

Post by **dalebrignall** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:42 pm

a recon gearbox is about 350 pounds plus the labour to fit it.

Post by **katiekat** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:01 pm

Thanks Dale!

Hope I don't need a new gearbox then!

Post by **bigginger** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:06 pm

bmcecosse wrote:Lack of oil is the most likely explanation. But if it's been run like that for a while - there may now be some damage to the box. I would drain it off - and refill with new oil - 20/50 or 10/40 is fine.

Factory recommended 20/50, same as the engine, as did all workshop manuals until the end of production. I'd stick with that, for peace of mind.
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Post by **DAVIDMCCULLOUGH** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:18 pm

The gearbox in my blue minor ran low of oil once before a new seal was fitted, but thankfully no damage was done as it was topped up a few miles after it started to make funny noises. It still working well and that was at least 10 years ago!

Post by **PSL184** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:34 pm

Plenty of good second hand boxes around that you can pick up for £20 - £30. No need to go mad on a recon box....

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:52 am

What the factory ' recommended' was engine oil - Sae 30 or maybe 40! I don't remember 20/50 being around in thise days. So - correctly - that is what should be put in the gearbox. Now 20/50 oil is actually more '20' grade at the working temp in a gearbox - it only goes to '50' in the heat of the engine, which the gearbox should not reach. The thinner 10/40 oil will give better fuel consumption (less churning loses) but the 20/50 will suit a worn box rather better, although a straight sae 30 oil will be better still!

Post by **rayofleamington** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:22 am

although a straight sae 30 oil will be better still!

A straight SAE 30 oil is EXTREMELY unlikely to be better than a modern multigrade. The difference in a gearbox will be minimal as the temperature range is likely -15°C to +50°C so not nearly as large as an engine.
However the multigrade maintains a much more stable viscosity over the temperature range, therefore is far more suitable. (e.g. doesn't turn to treacle at -15°C)

Added to that, a modern oil is engineered with low friction additives and life increasing additives. An SAE 30 oil is unlikely to be anywhere near as good. Half the additives in a modern oil will be wasted in a gearbox as the gearbox doesn't need the anti varnish properties or the carbon suspension additives - but that's inconsequential.
When you can get a very high spec 15-40 for £7 a gallon (ignore brand names and go for the spec levels) it's not really worth economising IMHO.

Post by **katiekat** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:49 am

I used Asda's 20/50. I hope that's alright I forgot to ask.

I've used that in old cars in the past and it seemed ok.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:08 am

Ray - I agree completely with what you say - but Andrew suggested that 20W50 was the 'factory ' spec - and it was not!
Yes - ASDA 20W50 is fine. I use in engine and box.

Post by **katiekat** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:31 am

That's a relief!

Post by **d_harris** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:59 pm

Its what I use too, a lot of folk will say that its no good as its re-cycled. But my view is that a) its still better than anything that was around when these engines were designed b) if it wasn't fit for purpose they wouldn't sell it.

I've used it in the fiesta as well, as that burns nearly as much oil as fuel.....

Post by **katiekat** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:21 pm

Well I'm pleased someone else uses it, not just me!

Post by **bigginger** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:17 pm

bmcecosse wrote:Ray - I agree completely with what you say - but Andrew suggested that 20W50 was the 'factory ' spec - and it was not!
Yes - ASDA 20W50 is fine. I use in engine and box.

I stand corrected - spec from 1960 (the earliest I have to hand) was summer SAE 30, winter SAE 20. Bigger numbers are recommended for worn engines.
Sorry 'bout that.
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