Waiting to be turned on...

Post by **jackkelleher** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:05 pm

I haven't checked for a spark yet, this oil thing got in the way... I'm going to have to refill the oil, too...

Post by **bmcecosse** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:47 pm

There must be a thick copper washer on EACH SIDE of the pipe flange. There must be a spark if it made some smoke. Maybe not at the right time - but it's there!

Post by **jackkelleher** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:19 am

The copper washer is only on one side! That explains it! Haha...
How do you tell if the timing is right? What valves are where when the whole thing's straight etc? The crank wheel has a lock washer on it, so I can't remove the timing chain cover- is there a way to make sure without removing it?

Post by **Axolotl** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:34 am

How do you tell if the timing is right? What valves are where when the whole thing's straight etc? The crank wheel has a lock washer on it, so I can't remove the timing chain cover- is there a way to make sure without removing it?

There are two "timings" to get right. Valve timing and ignition timing.

Valve timing is set when you reassembled the engine, by aligning the marks on the timing sprockets (crankshaft and camshaft) under the timing chain cover. (See Pic 1) It's either right or wrong, if it isn't correctly assembled, you'll have to take it apart and start again. The only adjustment to valve timing is by fitting a different camshaft with the cams offset differently, but that's a whole different ball game.

Ignition timing is set by positioning the timing mark on the crankshaft pully near the correct timing mark on the timing chain cover with the engine near top dead centre on No 1 cylinder (see pic 2), then turning the distributor body (slacken the clamp bolt to do this) so that the points are just opening at that point.

Normal timing when set as described is 3 degrees before TDC. You can use a cigarette paper between the points to feel when they open, or run a 12v test bulb across the points with the ignition on. When they open, the bulb goes on.

Alternatively, if you have a timing light that works off the HT ignition lead, the timing should be 6 degrees before TDC. (Set with the engine running, the light should illuminate the crankshaft pulley mark just as it passes the correct timing cover mark, that's why you need the tippex to highlight the marks, to make it easier to see.)

Pic 1

Pic 2

Post by **Axolotl** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:45 am

What valves are where when the whole thing's straight etc?

A bit more on this, from the workshop manual:-

"Checking Valve timing.

Set No. 1 cylinder inlet valve to .024 in. (.61 mm) clearance with the engine cold, and then turn the engine until the valve is about to open.

The indicating groove on the flange of the crankshaft pulley should then be opposite the the pointer on the timing cover on early engines or the largest pointer below the crankshaft pulley on later engines. i.e. the No. 1 inlet valve should be about to open at TDC and No. 4 piston will be at TDC on its compression stroke.

NOTE:- Do not omit to reset the inlet valve clearance to .012 in (.305 mm) with the engine cold when the timing check has been completed. A clearance of .019 in (.48 mm) brings the opening position of the valve to 5 degrees BTDC. It is not possible to check the valve timing accurately with the normal valve clearance."

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:08 pm

Assuming you have found and fitted the copper washers - and assuming there IS a spark (since it made black smoke) then you have to decide if it's sparking on the correct plug at the right time! Take the plugs out -and turn the engine until #1 piston is at the top of it's stroke with both valves tight shut (valves on #4 piston will be rocking - ie bothe will be slightly open) - and then look to see if the rotor arm in the dizzy is pointing to the HT connection in the cap which is running to #1 spark plug. If not - swap the leads about so it now is - and remember firing order is 1342 and the dizzy rotates anti-clockwise. Then try starting again. If it seems to be kicking against the starter then retard slightly - and if it's just not starting - try advancing it until you get that kicking - then retard slightly. It should start! Once it's running you can then set the timing more accurately using the excellent guide posted by Axoloti!

Post by **jackkelleher** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:19 pm

Thank you! That makes things much better. The valve timing is fine, it's the ignition timing I'm concerned about...
Unfortunately we're going out for much of the day (the parents insist I occasionally socialise with other things than the engine of my car) so I won't be able to do work on it til later, but I'll keep this thread posted on how the car's progressing!

Post by **Kevin** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:41 pm

(the parents insist I occasionally socialise with other things than the engine of my car)

Spoilsports, nothing wrong in having an engine for a pal

Post by **jackkelleher** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:20 am

That's what I always thought. The girl comes round and helps on the car (I bet that one doesn't get heard of too often- you never seem to get couples interested, usually just one party! Still, useful for me) so I don't really need to do anything else... Most frustrating, I haven't yet left my friend so I think I'll not be able to do any work today... Still there's always tomorrow as someone said!

Post by **Kevin** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:12 pm

The girl comes round and helps on the car

We have quite a few Lady posters on here so it must be the Moggie personality that attracts them

Post by **Orkney** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:15 pm

I'll vouch for that, Just dont tell the Dragon !!! Wish I'd got one years ago - Good job Pickys isnt running or he'd be swamped with female attention at uni, best he just concentrates on being drunk for now

Post by **MoggyTech** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:46 pm

Only 10 days of rain a year, and girls who will work on cars... Right that's it, my retirement plans have just changed, California here I come

(And not the one just outside of Falkirk)

Post by **jackkelleher** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:36 am

Yeah, don't reckon Falkirk would be much use!
Onto more serious issues- my timing, I think, is very out. Tell me what to do, O Wise Ones! (No facetiousness involved at all- I'm stuck!)

So, what I did was remove the spark plugs, turn on the ignition, and crank. No spark showed. So I removed the dizzy cap, and lo! For the breaker was sparking regularly. However:
When Valve 1 is flat, five descending (that's near TDC at Cylinder 1, right?) the contact breaker sparks, but the rotor arm is roughly 9 O'Clock (viewed straight on), which translates to between plug two and three on the dizzy cap.
I think that means the timing is not minorly off; I think I have managed to transpose it 180 degrees, and then some.

Please tell me I'm wrong- or at least a good way to solve it. I think this may mean resetting the dizzy drive- and that means off with the sump, out with the oil! And back a day!

Post by **jackkelleher** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:42 am

I'm just getting confused!
It's when four's going down that it's approaching TDC, isn't it? Well, in that case when the contact breaker sparks, and four is descending, the rotor arm is about twenty to thirty degrees beyond the first plug. So it's a retardation, by not too much... Thank God! I think I can deal with this.

Post by **jackkelleher** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:42 am

But I'll keep updating just in case...

Post by **Nadir** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:44 am

Does sound like it's 180 degrees out - 9 o'clock should be between plugs 4 and 2. Easy solution is to just move the olug leads on the dissy cap so that that one leads to plug one, Back to basics - have you remembered that the dissy rotate anticlockwise, and the firing order is 1 3 4 2?

Post by **jackkelleher** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:50 am

Yes- three and two doesn't work! They're not adjacent! Time to take a look! The dizzy must be wrong.

Post by **Nadir** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:02 am

Does seem that way

It can only be out by 180 deg though - try rearanging the leads, rather than taking the thing out and changing it - it won't damage anything

Post by **jackkelleher** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:23 am

it won't damage anything

Contrary to your expectations, I managed to break one of the dizzy leads! Still, I disconnected all but lead 1 and tried to get a spark from it by moving the casing. When valves five and six are going in opposite directions, the breaker sparks when the rotor is roughly in the six O'clock position- which corresponds to lead 1. However, when I rotate the dizzy so it should spark at the right time, the spark becomes negligible then completely unnoticeable (probably not there) not just for that area but for the whole rotation...

Post by **jackkelleher** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:55 am

I'm giving up for the night, but leave suggestions, please! I need them!

I can't get this to work! I followed Axolotl's guide; turn until the dimple is on, make sure that it's the first and not the fourth cylinder that's on the firing stroke. Then, the rotor arm is at about ten/eleven O'clock. So I turned the dizzy and used a bulb tester to make sure the points were just opening. Then I set it at that by tightening the clamp bolt. This done, I turned it: Argh!

So, it seems, that the breaker is not working fully. If one takes the position of eleven O'clock as one, and every 90 degree interval after that advances one to four:
1: No notable spark.
2: Sometimes a spark.
3: Stronger spark.
4: (We have reached four O'clock, for those lost by my description) Good strong spark.
What is causing this lack of spark? Is my timing still out? Why does the little clicky knob seem completely ineffective?

Why do I try a rebuild?

I might just get the local engineer in, but I was so close!