Waiting to be turned on...

Post by **jackkelleher** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:14 am

Almost there! My faithful Moggy, after a complete engine rebuild and new front end panels, went almost completely back together today, all that's missing is the bonnet release mechanism and the front grille (the interior grille panel is in place holding the rad)... I filled all the necessary fluids, turned it over by hand, etc, discovered that the battery is nigh-on dead but I'm hopeful...

Is there anything to do to a rebuild before starting it? I know I should retighten the head after the first decent run, but what about any other things? Is there a foolproof way to make sure timing is perfect? I'm pretty sure it is but I'm not definite... The Haynes was rather vague on the issue

Only visible tripper is the fuel pump which, although there remains enough battery to turn the ignition and all the lights on (and the wipers, if rather more feebly than usual), did not click when I turned the key... I'm recharging the battery and will try again tomorrow, but if I'm held up by a faulty pump after all this waiting...

(did the hammer trick to no avail!)
Merry Christmas all!

Post by **Kevin** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:26 am

(did the hammer trick to no avail!)

I assume you did it with the ignition on, still a fully charged battery will help.

Post by **jackkelleher** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:37 am

I did, yes, but no joy... Started with a tack hammer and ended with the biggest mallet I have

Post by **Willie** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:58 pm

If it still refuses to pump then it is very easy to clean the points. Hope your petrol is not too old?

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:26 pm

Just check there is power going to the pump! If it still won't go - clean the points. Best to take all the spark plugs out - and crank the engine over on the starter motor until oil pressure comes up. I'm assuming you assembled the pistons with lots of oil on the rings - if not squirt a wee drop oil into each spark plug hole. Then - in with the plugs and fire it up!

Post by **jackkelleher** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:50 pm

Actually, my petrol's been hanging around since august- I hadn't thought of that. Some new stuff might not go amiss!

I'm assuming you assembled the pistons with lots of oil on the rings

Yes, a fair amount, but I think I'll do as you suggest anyway. You can never have enough oil. Actually, rookie question: how do you know when the oil pressure's come up? I assume it'll be when the oil light goes off, but if there's another way what is it...
I'm hopeful! I need a decent battery charger, but I think it'll be running within a day!

Post by **Kevin** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:03 pm

my petrol's been hanging around since august- I hadn't thought of that. Some new stuff might not go amiss!

I wouldnt have thought that would be a problem as thats not really old.

how do you know when the oil pressure's come up? I assume it'll be when the oil light goes off,

That should be fine, if you want to you can even warm the plugs a little in an oven before firing up but its not essential.

Post by **jackkelleher** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:07 pm

Right! That leaves very little... I'm going to go and have a go at the fuel pump again, I'll keep posted!

Post by **bmcecosse** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:15 pm

That petrol should be ok - but if in doubt pour an egg-cup full of new petrol down the carb just to get it started. Ideally an oil pressure gauge - but yes the light going out is a good sign - you will also hear the cranking speed slog down slightly as the oil pump takes the load.

Post by **Orkney** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:08 pm

Theres a lesson in this i've just learned the hard way and it = duff petrol.
long story short my scabby range rover, its a dumper a workhorse not a road car. Thought I'd be a better skinflint than BMC and got some petrol from a dead car here a couple of weeks ago.
Put it in the car wouldnt start.
Finished pumping the last of it from the rr tank last night via teh cold injector. This morning got a fresh gallon and put that in.
Cleaned the plugs - and they were fouled & oily from all the non succesful starting attempts.
4th turn of the starter motor and off it went.
Interestingly noticed that on a jam jar of new petrol there was a 'visible' vapour coming from it, the old stuff, none, also it didnt smell the same.
Now left with 8 gallons of crap petrol and an empty range rover

but thinking about getting a bottle of octane boost and mixing the old crap with new 50/50 once the boost stuff is in with it.
I'm still kicking myself for not starting at the begining and most obvious cause and the time spent well its a lot.
End of teh day no bad thing, lesson learnt (again) and hopefully that should be that.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:25 pm

Petrol soon loses the high end fractions (the vapour you were seeing) and so it's difficult to get it to start an engine from cold - especially in cold weather. In fact - winter petrol has extra ingredients to make for easier starting! But if you blend that old petrol in with new it should be fine -although perhaps better to wait for summer to try that!

Post by **jackkelleher** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:04 pm

I was following that siphoning thread with the dead car...
New idea just occurred to me- better late than never

With a rebuild it's probably wise to reset valve clearances! What's the way to know a valve is fully open? Is it just when it's down fully at the non-ball end? Glad I thought of it before running!
Also, the HBOL says something about setting them with the engine running, but not how to do so- is this easier? Or is it less effective?

Post by **jackkelleher** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:04 pm

And moreover how is it achieved?

Post by **Orkney** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:11 pm

Theres a clicky gadget for the job - forget what its called someone will know.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:34 pm

Forget the 'Clickadjust' - just set them with the engine standing. I was going to ask if you had done them - it is essential! You use the rule of 9. So - #1 valve fully open -watch it go down as you turn the engine on the starting handle (spark plugs out) then you adjust #8 (1 +8 =9) and so on. After the engine has been running (positive thinking !) then you will need to retorque the cylinder head nuts - and re-adjust the valve clearances.

Post by **jackkelleher** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:37 pm

Right! I just did the clearances, they're all set now- any other essential things I'm missing? Re-setting and re-torquing I'll remember to do, after a decent run...
Fuel pump is now fully operational (and full of petrol)- the points were black so I did some sanding. Battery charging- a couple of hours and it'll be running! (Positive thinking continued)

Post by **bmcecosse** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:38 pm

Check to see if you have a spark! Good luck!

Post by **Orkney** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:04 pm

Good luck !!! timing adjusted? Highlight the marks on the pulley wheel with some tipex before you get running in case you need to adjust it.
Were the valve clearances far out ?

Post by **jackkelleher** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:59 pm

Some were too tight to fit the feeler, and others were just wide enough that it had a tiny bit of play, nothing big.
Timing I'm not sure is perfect- how does one tell absolutely?

Post by **jackkelleher** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:04 pm

Anyway, I have a huge problem...
I tried to start it, and it turned over all right but wouldn't start. On the sixth or seventh attempt it caught once, belched black smoke from somewhere and a smell of burnt oil, then went out... We tried a couple more times and I decided the fuel was too old, but as I was about to siphon it I noticed a huge pool of oil under the car, must be at least a quarter of the engine's capacity! Reason: that little pipe between the oil filter and the block is leaking where it connects to the block via that big bolt. The oil must have been being pumped directly out of the car as we tried to start it!
This thing is as tight as I could get it! Is there a specific torque or anything like that? Can someone list the order with which bits go on? I have: pipe with ring, washer, bolt through ring and into block. (Going from bottom to top) Should the washer be on the other side of the ring? AAh!