Clutch freeplay

Post by **johnm** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:32 pm

Mrs Johnm, who uses the car for everyday transport, mentioned that there was a lot of free play in the clutch.

I've had a look underneath and I don't think there's a huge amount adjustment left on the rod, but I did notice that the hook into the pedal rod seemed to be very loose. You can see almost half the hole the rod threads through.

This leads me to the conclusion that hook is wearing away (and possibly the pedal lever hole is becoming oval)

My inclination therefore is to replace the rod courtesy of ESM, I do have a spare but that's showing some signs of wear too.

Any thoughts on this anybody??

Post by **chickenjohn** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:06 pm

A friend of mine recently fitted the ESM kit and was very pleased!

Regular greasing to the linkages should then minimise wear.

Post by **simmitc** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:03 pm

If the rod is worn then in all probability so will be the relay shaft and connector plates. Bite the bullet, buy the kit, and replace the whole lot. It's usually worth it

Post by **chrisd87** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:39 pm

This is probably a really silly question but what exactly is meant by 'clutch pedal free play'? It's a term used in lots of the manuals but they don't explain what actually to look for. Is it side-to-side play in the pedal, or fore-aft movement? Or something else? Or am I a complete doofus?

Post by **minor_hickup** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:14 pm

It is the distance the clutch pedal travels before the clutch starts to dissengage.

Post by **chrisd87** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:18 pm

Ah. Does that include the movement you get when you pull the clutch pedal up as well?

Post by **minor_hickup** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:21 pm

You mean pull it up from its resting position? Im not sure but you shouldnt have that much travelfrom the resting position, i think it may be included but im sure someone will know for sure.

Post by **chrisd87** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:30 pm

I'll have to check exactly how much play there is from the resting position, but there is some. There isn't much play at all from resting position to clutch disengagement though, so I'll adjust it soon.

Post by **simmitc** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:53 am

If you can lift the clutch pedal then that suggests that the return spring has broken. There should be one that stretches between the operating fork (where the rod goes through it and the adjusting nut seats) to the engine backplate. This holds the pedal up against the gearbox cover / floor when at the rest position, so it should be impossible to lift it further. Freeplay is measured between the top edge of the pedal and the floor. It is the measure that the pedal moves, NOT the gap between the pedal and the floor. The manual gives the correct freeplay for the different engines.

Freeplay will gradually increase as the carbon bearing wears, but if it continually changes then possible causes include: locknut missing or not locked on operating rod, bad driving habits (eg riding clutch insetad of selecting neutral when stationary) or a fault within the clutch itself.

Post by **minor_hickup** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:22 am

If you can lift the clutch pedal then that suggests that the return spring has broken.

Just checked mine and you can do this slightly and my spring is fine. It must just be that the pedal can move further than the operating fork can return. Hence When adjusting free travel I would not include this in your measurement as it does not affect the operation of the clutch.

Post by **chrisd87** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:59 am

If you can lift the clutch pedal then that suggests that the return spring has broken.

Ooops. Mine will lift a good inch at the pedal. I'll crawl under it tonight and have a look.

Freeplay will gradually increase

So does that mean that the biting point will be higher up or closer to the floor? I was always told that as a clutch wears it will bite higher up.

Post by **simmitc** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:15 pm

As the release bearing wears, freeplay will increase and the pedal has to be pushed further before the clutch disengages. Conversely, on the way back up, the clutch will bite sooner, ie closer to the floor. Taken to extremes there can be so much freeplay that the clutch never disengages properly and gear changing becomes difficult.

Post by **chrisd87** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:23 pm

OK, that's the opposite of what I thought! I hardly have to depress the pedal at all to disengage the clutch, so something might be up.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:43 pm

OK, that's the opposite of what I thought! I hardly have to depress the pedal at all to disengage the clutch, so something might be up

When you get to the stage that you need almost no travel before the clutch starts slipping then it's time to wonder about when it will start slipping permanently, which leads to complete failure rather quickly.

As a conventional cluch wears, the clutch fingers move further outwards in their 'free' position. This will raise the bite point. Conversely as the linkages and carbon thrust bearing wear this lowers the bite point. Therefore it's not a simple calculation to get from bite point to an estimation of clutch wear

As the clutch gets closer to end of life the lever ratios in the clutch cover get worse - finaly resulting in not enough clamp load on the disk, but a much stiffer pedal.
With a bit of experience it is possible to spot this e.g. not being able to drive up car ramps without taking a run at them (engine slips the clutch rather than stalls the engine).
Driving hard with a slipping clutch will make a huge reduction on how much life is left - the clutch quickly heats up due to the heat from the friction, and once it is over about 300°C the clutch lining disintegrates.
(This is also the reason why you shouldn't hold a car on a hill by slipping the clutch - it doesn't take that many seconds before you start to permanently damage the clutch)

Post by **chrisd87** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:53 pm

It's certainly not slipping permanently yet, and you can still get a very sharp pull-off so it may just need adjusting.

Post by **minor_hickup** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:00 pm

I had a similar problem, the bit was right at the top of the pedal travel, at first it just slipped on steep hills but got worse, by the time I got it home I realised it definately needed adjusting and did so pronto.

Post by **johnm** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:29 pm

Clutch free play now adjusted and all much better. I'll take the advice on replacing the linkage when the clutch is replaced.

Minor (sorry for pun

)point, the pedal is significantly stiffer I wondered if the clutch return spring was perhaps too strong or too short??