Disc brake problems

Post by **yellowpinky** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:32 pm

Hello
Late this summer I had one of those ford vented disc brakes fitted. However, the other day I noticed some clunking noises that sounded just like the wheel nuts had come loose. After sniffing around under the front arches I noticed that the hub had a slight wobble on. I suspected this might be the problem with the clunking ...but can't be sure. Funnily enough it seemed to be the case on both wheels. I don't know much about brakes so does anyone know how to overcome this problem? Am I looking in the right place etc??
I had a go at tightening the nut in the centre by removing the split pin and flowery shaped washer, however this did nothing..

Post by **simmitc** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:57 pm

There have been problems with some of the kits, particularly those with alloy hubs. If you search for other posts you might find something. I'd go back to the supplier, the set-up ought to last more than a few months.

Post by **bigginger** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:28 pm

The nut in the centre isn't done up specially tight, FYI - don't welly it on too hard. Oh - and the nearside is left hand thread.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:21 pm

There should obviously be no 'play' in the hubs - instant MOT fail. Take it straight back to where it came from - are you willing to say where that was ?

Post by **bigginger** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:28 pm

Have you checked the bolts that hold the caliper bracket to the 'hub'?

Post by **yellowpinky** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:08 pm

Thanks for the input peeps. I will investigate - once I have worked out which bits are which from your comments.

The brakes were purchased from Bull Motif in a very well put together conversion kit... if I can't fix it I will get a garage to check it and contact them.

Please keep the suggestions coming as I really don't know for sure what it is that has gone awry.

Post by **bigginger** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:48 pm

Is it still on standard wheels? If so, check that the nuts areen't coming loose. If it's on Alloys, check the same thing, and also that it has the correct (Alloys) nuts. In fact, check every nut you can see

, and bear in mind it may be play in trunnions/king pin too. Could be that the extra strain of the disc brakes is wearing things quicker than that of the drums, could just be normal wear. Unless you're perfectly happy working with brakes, you'll have to get it to a garage for your own peace of mind.

Post by **jonathon** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:56 pm

Check that the bearing casing is still fixed onto the hub. The common fault with this kit is that the machining of the hub is not all it could be, which allows the bearings to become loose, giving the symtoms you describe. An attempt to cure this problem was to fix them in with loctite or similar product, a quick fix but not really an engineering solution, or long lasting. If you find this to be the case then return the product to BM and ask for a refund, the option of a direct replacement will not always cure the problem. Plus BMotif no longer sell this kit, but now offer our's instead.

Post by **bigginger** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:08 am

I've never tried a BM kit, just Charles Ware's and Jonothan's, and I can recommend the latter

Post by **jonathon** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:52 am

To avoid confusion.
MMC Bath supply most of the disc kits on the market,(alloy hub version).
C.S Autoclassics do their own Marina based kit, not sure if they do Ford based.
C.Ware does the Marina based kit based on the same principle of the C.S. Auroclassics version.
JLH do our own Ford based disc kit and also offer the Marina based version.
Prices in this field are representative of quality.

Post by **yellowpinky** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:10 pm

I'm sure the kit had a reference to Charles Ware on the box it came in. Of course this doesn't really mean anything..just thought i'd mention it as it could be the same kit but sold by BM.
I also have 4.5j wheels on the front which may have added to the strain. I have replaced a trunion on one side and am soon to do the other aswell as the track rod ends.
I know a very good mechanic based in Norfolk but I only get to see him about twice a year as I live in Birmingham. I try to get as much done as I can afford at the time. I am due to see this mechanic over the christmas period but fear it would be too far to drive with all this clunking going on???
I am going outside to have another look around the situation. Can I access the bearings by removing the split pin, waher, nut etc? Is it a case of pushing the bearings back into place?
Thankyou again for all your comments.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:17 pm

Errr - no - you ceratinly can't just push bearings back in to place ! If the bearings are loose the disc will be floating and you are likely to have a very 'long' pedal (because the pads will be pushed back into the calipers). Do you have this ? If it's a clunking problem - then maybe nothing to do with the discs - look to the trunnions in particular - because this can pull out and leave you stranded. It usually happens at low speed - thank goodness. Could just be worn rubber bushes in the suspension - the top arm is fairly obvious - but the bottom arm(s) need stripping out before you can see they are knackered. Get some new ones before you start !

Post by **Peetee** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:43 am

To expand on Bmcecosse's comments the trunnion threads should look broad and flat. If they are sharp like a woodscrew they need replacing. I'll also echo the point about bushes. Disc brakes can put huge extra strain on these componants. If the clunk is directly related to using the brakes rather that driving in general then for goodness sake don't drive the thing even short distances before you get someone to have a look.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:26 pm

Of course to see the threads you need to have the things in bits ! I would suggest some careful levering and if you can see any movement - then inspect further.
On this point - with my additional front telescopic dampers fitted - the trunnions cannot pull out - the damper will not allow it! Excellent safety feature. Having had a trunnion pull out (40 years ago now) while on my way to Uni for an important exam - I can tell you it is a miserable experience. I had to jack the car at the side of the road - force the trunnion back in - put the weight back on the suspension - and then lash the tow rope round it all to make sure it stayed in place - then on to Uni for the exam !! It worked - got me home too, and I passed the exam.

Post by **yellowpinky** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:42 pm

Problem solved...
After a while of head scratching and beard rubbing I took the old van to the garage and the mechanic set about adjusting the bearings. Seems like I wasn't far off when I first had ago myself. And we are back on the road.
The kit I have has 'Morris Minor Centre performance parts' Bradford on Avon written on the instructions. I'd still be interested to hear what peoples opinions are on this particular kit??
I'm still going to get the trunnions replaced as I had one go a while back and figured it would be wise to get ahead of the game. My friend recommended mixing grease with a bit of '140 gear oil' when applying grease to the trunnions as the lube will then slide back to where it should be. Sounds good in theory, but i'm not an expert.
I like the sound of the telescopic front dampers but tell me..how should I go about getting these fitted? Any good tips on new parts? Fitting etc.

Thanks for the trunnion exam story

and all other replies.

Post by **bigginger** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:59 pm

I'm still puzzled by the "adjusting the bearings".There's a split pin through a castle nut whicn means that however they were is the way they were after the brakes were fitted - or am I just easily confused?

Post by **yellowpinky** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:46 pm

Mmm not really sure. I was lucky in that i was able to watch the mechanic at work..With the car jacked up and without removing the wheel he removed the dust cap and split pin then moved the nut in and out for a while. He did this for a couple of minutes until the wheel stopped wobbling, repaced the pin etc and it drove away fine. It did not appear that he had over tightened the nut but at the same time I couldn't grasp his nack to stopping the wobble..which made me wonder if i'll ever be able to do this myself..on the other side and generally in the future.

Post by **bigginger** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:02 pm

The rule of thumb is to do them up tight and then loosen them slightly - can't remember how much, it's in the manual. I'm sure you'll be fine doing it in future, but get a manual first

Post by **Packedup** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:34 pm

This'll be taper roller bearings then?

I just tighten till they're slightly binding (although if they're continually causing problems I tighten up a fair bit more to bed them back in) and there's no play, then back off a slot (in the nut) at a time till the wheel turns freely without showing any signs of wobble.

On some cars you pretty much just have to wind the nut up to finger tight to acheive this, which to my luddite mind seems a bit frightening!

Post by **bigginger** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:59 pm

I'll dig out the instructiond that came with the C Ware kit if I can and check - sounds like the right kind of procedure though.