Breakdown Cover Exclusions

[mike1864]

I see that the Club's retained insurer has an onerous restriction on its breakdown cover.
Their agent DAS gives no cover resulting from "lack of" or (elsewhere in the documentation) "running out of "oil, fuel or water".
I can understand the fuel element; as it probably stems from driver error (though I have driven 100 miles on French country roads without seeing a petrol station!). And failure to reasonably keep the other fluids topped up represents contributory driver blame.
But it doesn't say that; instead their wording dictates that fluids running away due a blown gasket, lost core plug or split hose would disqualify your breakdown cover. I certainly don't want to be stuck at the roadside, and having to argue this point with the breakdown phone rep or driver.
Rather than my taking this up with Peter James or DAS, I reckon that the Club has more clout to discuss this with them.

[svenedin]

Thank you for raising this. I had not seen these exclusions when I took out my policy. These restrictions would be very problematic to me especially when overseas.

Stephen

[mike1864]

And their mis-fuelling cover works only in the UK. As we know, foreign filling stations have been known to dispense diesel from an E5 petrol pump into a touring Minor . So that cover would save emptying 25 litres of diesel into a roadside ditch.
I've now got two breakdown policies, I'll have to through their small print to work out which one to invoke; I feel a spreadsheet coming on .

[svenedin]

And their mis-fuelling cover works only in the UK. As we know, foreign filling stations have been known to dispense diesel from an E5 petrol pump into a touring Minor . So that cover would save emptying 25 litres of diesel into a roadside ditch.
I've now got two breakdown policies, I'll have to through their small print to work out which one to invoke; I feel a spreadsheet coming on .

Oh yes we know all about diesel from a petrol pump!

Actually I also have AA cover for my modern which covers any vehicle I am travelling in within the UK but it does not cover Europe so the PJ cover is important.

Stephen

[Bill_qaz]

Surely split hose, core plug or gasket failure etc is a mechanical break down, topping up will not help.
Running out of fuel exclusion I don't believe to be uncommon as it avoidable. Some tunnels carry a penalty if you do so.

[svenedin]

Running out of petrol in my modern would be negligent. It warns me that I have only 30 miles of fuel left and even offers to direct me to the nearest petrol station.

In a classic it is much easier to run out of petrol. We do not have a warning light and the gauge is not very accurate either. Some classics do not even have a petrol gauge and only have a petrol tank dip stick! Carrying extra fuel is dangerous and even prohibited on certain forms of transport.

Stephen

[Bill_qaz]

Running out of petrol in my modern would be negligent. It warns me that I have only 30 miles of fuel left and even offers to direct me to the nearest petrol station.

In a classic it is much easier to run out of petrol. We do not have a warning light and the gauge is not very accurate either. Some classics do not even have a petrol gauge and only have a petrol tank dip stick! Carrying extra fuel is dangerous and even prohibited on certain forms of transport.

Stephen

You can legally carry spare petrol in approved containers and quantities both in UK and Europe.
Which form of transport are you talking about, we were talking Morris Minor

[mike1864]

Running out of petrol in my modern would be negligent. It warns me that I have only 30 miles of fuel left and even offers to direct me to the nearest petrol station.

In a classic it is much easier to run out of petrol. We do not have a warning light and the gauge is not very accurate either. Some classics do not even have a petrol gauge and only have a petrol tank dip stick! Carrying extra fuel is dangerous and even prohibited on certain forms of transport.

Stephen

You can legally carry spare petrol in approved containers and quantities both in UK and Europe.
Which form of transport are you talking about, we were talking Morris Minor

Cross channel ferries!
AFAIK they prohibit even empty Jerry cans. We MOTters have to buy one on arrival in France and leave it there on the way back.

[Bill_qaz]

Running out of petrol in my modern would be negligent. It warns me that I have only 30 miles of fuel left and even offers to direct me to the nearest petrol station.

In a classic it is much easier to run out of petrol. We do not have a warning light and the gauge is not very accurate either. Some classics do not even have a petrol gauge and only have a petrol tank dip stick! Carrying extra fuel is dangerous and even prohibited on certain forms of transport.

Stephen

You can legally carry spare petrol in approved containers and quantities both in UK and Europe.
Which form of transport are you talking about, we were talking Morris Minor

Cross channel ferries!
AFAIK they prohibit even empty Jerry cans. We MOTters have to buy one on arrival in France and leave it there on the way back.

Ok on channel tunnel

[Bill_qaz]

Out of interest what range do you get out of a tank on your minors?

[myoldjalopy]

Nunno, cos I never run it dry........but, after a good tune-up I get about 41 - 42mpg. 948cc engine.....
Oh, my maths tells me that is about 270 miles on a full tank

[mike1864]

Surely split hose, core plug or gasket failure etc is a mechanical break down, topping up will not help.
Running out of fuel exclusion I don't believe to be uncommon as it avoidable. Some tunnels carry a penalty if you do so.

I was remarking that failure to monitor (and top up as necessary) your oil and water levels in accordance with the manufacturer's guidelines might reasonably be considered by the breakdown company as a carelessness invalidating the cover, much like running out of fuel.
But the company's actual wording means that a breakdown "resulting from a lack of water" is not covered, even if that lack of water is itself due to a catastrophic hose failure. Ditto for a seizure resulting from a catastrophic sudden loss of oil.
Maybe DAS won't be so draconian in practice. But why write it like that?
I'd like it properly drafted now; not to have a repair mechanic shaking his head at my puddle of antifreeze or oil in Lane 1 of the M25

[Bill_qaz]

Mike, So you read it as they will not treat the effect but will use the cause as the excuse not to recover.
If you're correct then this needs clarification and addressing. Maybe it should be by the club rep rather than lots of members asking the same question. Who is the liason for members insurance scheme? Will you be contacting him/her about your discovery.

[mike1864]

Out of interest what range do you get out of a tank on your minors?

I once got 220 miles from my SII's (but now 1098) 5 gallon tank. But it was all getting a bit too exciting towards the end

[les]

Returning to the breakdown cover ————if the Minor is the only car owned, the restriction on the clubs insurance needs clarification, however if an everyday is also owned chances are breakdown cover is bought separately, therefor would also cover a minor.

[Bill_qaz]

Returning to the breakdown cover ————if the Minor is the only car owned, the restriction on the clubs insurance needs clarification, however if an everyday is also owned chances are breakdown cover is bought separately, therefor would also cover a minor.

Unfortunately not always, my modern insurance comes with breakdown insurance included but only for the car, not personal so if I'm in another vehicle I'm not covered
That was part of the attraction of the club insurance deal, competitive price and recovery included

[mike1864]

Mike, So you read it as they will not treat the effect but will use the cause as the excuse not to recover.
If you're correct then this needs clarification and addressing. Maybe it should be by the club rep rather than lots of members asking the same question. Who is the liason for members insurance scheme? Will you be contacting him/her about your discovery.

Hi Bill. This morning I pinged this issue to Derby's Simon Mitchell, who will flag it to Peter James in his upcoming progress meeting with them. I also noted that the fully comp member-to-member cover only works in the UK (no good for MOT26). And, as it stands, Ian K wouldn't be covered for putting Diesel in his tank from a foreign pump labelled "E5" .

[svenedin]

Mike, So you read it as they will not treat the effect but will use the cause as the excuse not to recover.
If you're correct then this needs clarification and addressing. Maybe it should be by the club rep rather than lots of members asking the same question. Who is the liason for members insurance scheme? Will you be contacting him/her about your discovery.

Hi Bill. This morning I pinged this issue to Derby's Simon Mitchell, who will flag it to Peter James in his upcoming progress meeting with them. I also noted that the fully comp member-to-member cover only works in the UK (no good for MOT26). And, as it stands, Ian K wouldn't be covered for putting Diesel in his tank from a foreign pump labelled "E5" .

Thank for looking into all of the fine details Mike. I didn't know the member-to-member cover was not valid in Europe. I had thought it would be very useful for Minors on Tour when for instance somebody has car troubles and wants to borrow another participants's Minor. Ian had the receipt to prove he had put what was labelled as E5 in his tank but of course it turned out that the pump had delivered diesel......We can't have participants worrying about breakdown cover that has so many exclusions it is useless.

Stephen

[mike1864]

The exclusions I cited are from the quotation's Product Information Document, and summarise the actual terms, which will arrive with the policy. Maybe this wording will resolve any ambiguity re lack of fluids. And maybe it will include the word "repatriation", which the PID - strangely - doesn't.
The breakdown agency is listed as DAS in some places and ARAG in others; hopefully that too will be clarified in the policy.

[svenedin]

The exclusions I cited are from the quotation's Product Information Document, and summarise the actual terms, which will arrive with the policy. Maybe this wording will resolve any ambiguity re lack of fluids. And maybe it will include the word "repatriation", which the PID - strangely - doesn't.
The breakdown agency is listed as DAS in some places and ARAG in others; hopefully that too will be clarified in the policy.

I do have a policy with PJ arranged under the club scheme and I have perused the documents but of course they are lengthy and tedious to go through.

These are the exclusion terms as stated in my policy documents:

What is not covered
These exclusions apply to all insured events (1-11).
1 The cost of:
a) Spare or replacement parts, fluids or fuel or any other materials used in repairing the Insured Vehicle; OR
b) Any repairs carried out other than those carried out at a scene of a Breakdown or a claim payable under insured event 6 - Theft damage; OR
c) Obtaining a spare wheel or roadside repairs where the spare wheel carried by the Insured Vehicle is not legal and serviceable; OR
d) Replacing broken windows or keys or finding missing keys; OR
e) Damage caused as a direct result of gaining access to the Insured Vehicle following Your request for assistance; OR
f) Ferry crossings, parking charges, fines or toll charges other than a claim paid for repatriation of the Insured Vehicle under insured event 9a); OR
g) Ferry crossings or toll charges incurred by the driver of the recovery vehicle; OR
h) Recovery of the Insured Vehicle if it is partly or completely buried in mud, snow, sand or water; OR
i) Recovery of a trailer or caravan on tow unless it is less than 7.6 metres (25 feet) in length.
2 The Breakdown of the Insured Vehicle:
a) If it has knowingly been driven in an unsafe or unroadworthy condition; OR
b) Which has resulted from the lack of oil, fuel or water; OR
c) Which occurs if the Insured Vehicle has been modified for, or is being used for, motor racing, trials or rallying or for hire or reward; OR
d) Where the Insured Vehicle is being used unreasonably on unsuitable terrain; OR
e) Where the Insured Vehicle is carrying more occupants or a greater weight than the manufacturers specified maximum.
3 Breakdown assistance or recovery where the Insured Vehicle:
a) Exceeds 3,500 kilograms gross vehicle weight or 6 metres (20 feet) in length; OR
b) Is considered to be dangerous or illegal to repair or transport.
4 The cost or the quality of repairs when the Insured Vehicle is repaired in a garage.
5 More than six claims for Breakdown recovery in any one period of insurance, nor more than two claims in any one period of insurance which arise from a
common identified fault.
6 More than £3000 in respect of any claim, or series of claims, under insured events 4-11 arising during the same Trip.
7 Any amount under Insured Event 7 where spare parts:
a) Cannot be obtained locally; OR
b) Are not commercially available; OR
c) Cannot be exported to the country where the Insured Vehicle is located.
8 More than the cost for legal abandonment and any Customs Duty imposed if the estimated repatriation cost exceeds the market value of the Insured Vehicle
in the United Kingdom.
9 Any costs:
a) Incurred before You have notified Us of the Breakdown; OR
Motor Insurance Additional Cover 13
b) c) Which would have been incurred had no claim arisen; OR
Covered under any other insurance or under the service provided by a motoring organisation, or which would have been covered if this insurance did not exist;
OR
d) Arising from an Insured Person's failure to comply with Our instructions or the vehicle rescue operator's instructions in respect of the service being provided.
10 Any claim:
a) Arising from the driving of the Insured Vehicle with Your permission by anyone (including You):
i) Who You know is disqualified from driving, or has never held a licence to drive the Insured Vehicle, or is prevented by law from having a licence; OR
ii) Who is not complying with the conditions of the licence held; OR
b) c) d) e) Arising from an inadequate or attempted repair carried out during the course of the same Trip unless We had approved the repair; OR
For loss or damage to personal effects left in, on or outside the Insured Vehicle; OR
For damage to the Insured Vehicle when it is being transported to Your Home; OR
Directly or indirectly caused by or resulting from the failure, or fear of failure, of any device to recognise, interpret or process any date as its true calendar
date, or to continue to function correctly beyond that date.
11 Breakdowns caused by, contributed to by or arising from:
a) Ionising radiation or contamination by radioactivity from any nuclear fuel or from any nuclear waste from burning nuclear fuel; OR
b) The radioactive, toxic, explosive or other hazardous properties of any explosive nuclear assembly or nuclear part of it; OR
c) War, invasion, foreign enemy hostilities (whether war is declared or not), civil war, rebellion, military force or coup; OR
d) Pressure waves caused by aircraft or any other airborne devices travelling at sonic or supersonic speeds; OR
e) Acts of terrorism as defined in the Terrorism Act 2000.