Morris Minor Owners Club

after several scary brake-fade incidents, I'm going to fit discs...

I'm looking at ESM's Ford kit http://shop.morrisminorspares.co.uk/pro ... 8198baf36f

and JLH's Ford kit http://www.jlhmorrisminors.co.uk/pages/price.html

£325 v £495

what, if any is the difference between these kits? (don't say "about £170")

are there any other items needed to fit these that are not included in kit?

are they straightforward swaps or is drilling required?

cheers

Haven't done an ESM kit, but the JLH one is superb quality (I needled away tying to get a better definition of that, but couldn't, but I bit the bullet and got one, and it's light years ahead of the Marina kits which I have done) and includes all the bits. Oh, and no drilling involved...

Can you do the JLH conversion without all the other bits and bobs on the list? eg: do you only need the others if you are fitting a servo?

I have bought an Owen Burton Ford kit (looks the same as ESM/Birmingham/Bath's kit) and had nothing but trouble with brake judder. After changing lots of bits over a couple of years I got exasperated and bought a JLH kit and was amazed at the difference in quality. Fitted it no problem and it's been perfect ever since!

With the non-JLH kit you have to shim the calipers to fit, possibly grind/file some off the calipers so that the wheel does not catch and rotates freely! and you have to drill the stub-axle mouting flange out to 10mm. You don't do any of that with the JLH kit. It just bolts on and drive away!

I was very annoyed though after previously having drilled out my stub-axle flanges to 10mm (for the non-JLH kit) that I had to buy two brand new suspension legs to fit the JLH kit as that kit uses the standard size holes.

KirstMin, What other bits are you on about?

ello, i get confused by the JLH price list because I am not as knowledgable as others (in this field)

Handling and Braking Kits Part (£):

Ford-based disc brake kit 495.00
Modified M/C incl. caps 70.00
Header tank kit 45.00
Servo unit 165.00
Brake pipes and fittings 70.00

So essentially the modified master cylinder, header tank and brake pipes. Are these all optional or only required for the servo?

You'll have to get/modify yourself the master cylinder - removal of a 'washer' - and fit new end caps. You can do without a servo - both Cam and I do - but it does make things a bit easier on your leg. The header tank is VITAL, 'cos the disc setup neeeds the extra fluid.

So if i've been of any help it's that Blunt now knows there are extra things involved other than the £495 which I think is what he was asking

I have a marina kit (which i know isn't as good but its ok for what i need) and servo unit. Servo is coz my girlfriend also drives the car and it helps her.

It's as good in terms of stopping the car, but just not as well made - can't see it lasting as long as the JLH kit, and (thin ice time again) I don't specially like drilling out the kingpin.

Thanks for your help folks

I don't want to drill if I can help it, plus what you said about the quality rules out the ESM kit
so, if I've understood this correctly, I'll need the whole list (servo optional)

Ford-based disc brake kit 495.00
Modified M/C incl. caps 70.00
Header tank kit 45.00
Servo unit 165.00
Brake pipes and fittings 70.00

phew!

£845 or £680

more questions...

does it take very long to fit (can I do it myself in a weekend)?
I'm an average mechanic...is it difficult?
how can I justify this expense to my wife?(only joking....I'll just not tell her!)

Blunt,
Our disc kit is expensive compared to the Bath supplied kit. The difference is, as those above have kindly reported, in the quality. Only the best discs, pads and bearings are used along with very well machined hubs. The Bath kit will do the same job in theory, but how long will the alloy hub last in all weather conditions plus the quality of component parts is second rate to say the least.
The kit can be fitted in about 21/2 hours plus the m/c swap and headertank kit. For us to fit the lot inc servo would take a day as you will need to repipe the complete system with the servo. PM me for prices or any other sensitive info. I will be away from the workshop from 22-27th. Hope this helps.

The Ford kit does stop the car well but as a kit it has two very big and almost inexcusable flaws that shout "Budget" to me. Firstly you have to drill out the mounting holes on the Minor upright and secondly the calipers need filing to clear the wheels.

So spend the extra money and get yourselves to JLH

what else should one change when doing a DBC? I am thinking tiebars etc.

Just in case anyone wanted an explanation on the additional parts required - Disk brakes have a bigger piston (normally) but it doesn't spring back.
Pedal travel stays low (with no wear adjustment required) as the pistons stay pushed out nearly all the way - This needs 2 changes
1) as the pads wear the pistons go further out an the MC can run empty!
2) if the non return valve is working correctly, the disk brakes will stay on a little bit after you release the pedal and this is not a good thing. (There's no spring to assist the brakes to return so permanent dragging is possible)

Therefore the little non return valve at the end of the m/c needs to be altered so it allows fluid back, and you need a remote reservoir for extra fluid volume

very many thanks to all posters....


my mind is made up....

jonathon...I'll be in touch by pm shortly

I will, of course, keep you all updated on my efforts.

I'll post some piccies of the van soon....maybe even get a sig...

cheers
pete

Jonathon - I think if I was the manufacturer of the 'Bath' kit - I would be on the phone to my lawyer right now ! You are very touchy about your own products - you should know better than to make statements about others !!

I notice the birmingham center does a midget based system for £295, has any one tried that and was it easy to fit/any good?

bmcecosse wrote:Jonathon - I think if I was the manufacturer of the 'Bath' kit - I would be on the phone to my lawyer right now ! You are very touchy about your own products - you should know better than to make statements about others !!

Just for information:

It's true that Jonathon's statement was technically against the Terms and Conditions of this messageboard posting but it was helpful to others so it remains unedited.

Also, Jonathon has not actually made any false statements so I don't think the lawyer would have much to work with.

I'm not defending anyone or taking sides, but that's how it is.

I am also looking in to this (as can be seen from the marina disks post) If I was to go JLH and bought the £495 bit would I be able to get the other bits cheaper (not interested in a servo) eg. find a suitable brake fluid resevior on the scrap heap and get the appropriate brake pipes made at the local motor factors? If someone told me how I would modify the M/C myself if it is possible without machining

Errr - well J made statements about the quality of the parts - and these are his opinion - I'm sure the manufacturer has a QC system and will have made sure the Quality is sufficient for the job. I'm not taking sides here either - but if I was J I would go back and edit that comment.
I too was going to ask (again) about the Spridget conversion - I'm sure this has been /can be done very very inexpensively - parts bought on ebay and simple bracket made up to connect the caliper to the upright. I have been quietly looking for a Sprite caliper so that I can work out what is involved. I think someone said the Sprite hub and disc goes straight on the Minor stub axle - and the BIG benefit is that the wheel stud PCD remains at 4 ". Of course you can get brakes pipes made up anywhere - if you are near me I will make them for you for free ! The Draper kit is not expensive - and works well once you realise you need to throw away the instructions !! I don't see why a servo is needed - the car is not that heavy and if the discs are any good then there should be no need for a servo. The m/c conversion can be done diy - I haven't done it myself - but I'm sure many on here have -perhaps they will come forward and tell how ?

well J made statements about the quality of the parts - and these are his opinion - I'm sure the manufacturer has a QC system and will have made sure the Quality is sufficient for the job. I'm not taking sides here either - but if I was J I would go back and edit that comment.

J's opinions are mine too and anyone else who has had experience of these parts. The QC is (as far as I can tell) non existant as I have been back to complain MANY times to the Birmingham centre who denied any problems even though I had spoken to people with exactly the same problems as me who also told me that THEY had also been and complained! That is a statement of fact.

I can understand what you mean though and on the surface it looks like a nasty comment from one trader about another's products, but this is an issue that has been going on for many years and has caused problems and lots of irritation.

The M/C modification is easy and costs nothing, but you have to remove the M/C and take a little rubber cup off from inside.