rattling noise when nearside front wheel goes over pot holes

[eng622]

I think the rattling noise is coming from more than one source. I know the inner track rod end has free play as can hear it click when pulling on the joint and assume that this will give some noise when riding over pot holes. Read on here about other causes and everything seems normal.
The car has front disc brakes and on going down a hill with pot holes the noise stops on moderate braking. There is the odd occasion when there is a clonk on depressing the brake pedal. The PO had this problem and many brake parts were replaced but still there. The rattling disappears at speed but is vey bad below 30 mph and can be heard when almost coming to a stop.
Read on other car forums of similar problems but no real answers.

[svenedin]

Lot's of potential reasons. Where do you think the noise if coming from?

I would be thinking suspension. Worn bushes, loose tie rod, loose damper bolts on the bulkhead. Have you tried to replicate the noise by bouncing the front wing on the affected side? What about supporting the car off the ground on the chassis rail and then having a good examination of the suspension?

On the other hand, I had problems with rattles recently and I found it was the rear window frame creaking but then my car is a soft top.

Stephen

[eng622]

Sounds if coming from the underside. There must be a clue if it stops when braking. Checked rack and shock absorber bolts. Jacked up on chassis and under suspension arm used a pry bar under tyre nothing other than with side to side movement can detect the inner track rod end play, outer rod new. Rocking the car up/down side to side nothing.

[svenedin]

What about the tie bar and bushes? When you brake the front bush gets compressed and it would stop rattling if the bar is loose. Just a guess from my own experience of loose tie bars.

Stephen

[philthehill]

My recommendation is to firstly strip out the tie bar and check the rubbers at the front for serviceably. Check for wear of the reduced diameter of the tie bar at the front as it is not unknown for the tie bar to snap due to wear in that location. Check the rear of the tie bar to ensure that the tie bar is held firmly in the yoke of the tie bar rear mount bracket and that the bolt is not worn and the tie bar rear bracket securing nut is tight.
Make sure that the eye bolt bushes are serviceable.
If all is serviceable with the above then you should move on to stripping the suspension to find out what is the problem.

[eng622]

Pictures attached and you can see that there is an ARB as well. Cheap and nasty looking as there was a rattle because the plastic clamp/bolts became loose (now sorted) but the the ARB bracket is attached to the chassis by a long bolt/nut that goes though it and that was loose as well. I think there is no tube through the chassis to take the bolt and maybe there is slop in the chassis holes as you can see a rust line between the bracket and chassis where the bracket as moved. checked bolt today and could tighten more.
Could the ARB bracket cause the rattle.
Regarding the wishbone tie rod I can find no movement in the bushes or at the wishbone end bolt.
I do not understand how the bushes work. The cup washers are there but how do the bushes stop the rod hitting the bracket. The bushes look to be either side of the bracket and are plain and assume do not go though the bracket hole so just do not see hoe it all works.

[svenedin]

The bushes have a locating collar (or at least the Superpro polyurethane ones do) that fits in a cup in the bracket. This stops the rod from hitting the bracket. Unfortunately it is not possible to fit 2x polyurethane bushes on the same side. A poly one can be used in front for braking and a rubber one behind for articulation.

Stephen

In this installation of a new tie bar, the rubber bush is rather more squashed than I would have liked but that is the only way it would fit on my car.

I don't have an anti-roll bar. I've seen them fitted on other cars but they look like some kind of garden furniture to me rather than something for a car. The plastic clamps don't fill me with confidence but people seem pleased with them.....

IMG_8851.jpeg (542.04 KiB) Viewed 2385 times

IMG_8849.jpeg (2.24 MiB) Viewed 2385 times

IMG_8857.jpeg (1.78 MiB) Viewed 2385 times

[philthehill]

The original rubber BMC tie rod bushes did have the raised boss which fitted into the tie bar bracket and gave some protection against tie bar to tie bar bracket contact.
Regarding the anti roll bar:-
I would argue against labelling the antiroll bar as cheap and nasty but it does need to be fitted correctly and the fitting procedure improved.
So to start with -the mounting brackets in the photos above are mounted the wrong way round. The bracket should be mounted underneath the chassis. Having the bracket under the chassis ensures that the bracket cannot move. See my photo below.
The way the bolts fit into and through the plastic bush ensures that the bolts will come loose through fretting of the plastic bush.
To overcome any fretting of the bush I have fitted a metal plate over the underside of the bush. The plate has two raised bosses which fit into the bush counter bore which means the bush and plate cannot move. I have also fitted captive nuts into the underside of the chassis so that there are now three triangulated points of securing each bracket. The bracket needs to be drilled and fettled to allow for the depth of the head of the captive nut.
I have also fitted an additional mounting bracket on the other side of the chassis to help with location. If you do fit the additional bracket make sure that the bolt holes are in the same location as the position of the holes in the bracket can vary.
Having the additional bracket there is no requirement to weld a tube into the chassis and the crush factor relating to the chassis is near eliminated.

anti roll bar mount 222.JPG (134.84 KiB) Viewed 2027 times

The articulation and type of bush/mounting at the rear end of the ESM (Owen Burton) antiroll bar does not help keep the mounting bracket in place.
To overcome the inbuilt inadequacies of the rear mount I have fitted a fully rose jointed link which has no effect on the anti roll bar mount bracket.

roll bar 2.JPG (142.47 KiB) Viewed 1976 times

[Andmurph]

My recommendation is to firstly strip out the tie bar and check the rubbers at the front for serviceably. Check for wear of the reduced diameter of the tie bar at the front as it is not unknown for the tie bar to snap due to wear in that location. Check the rear of the tie bar to ensure that the tie bar is held firmly in the yoke of the tie bar rear mount bracket and that the bolt is not worn and the tie bar rear bracket securing nut is tight.
Make sure that the eye bolt bushes are serviceable.
If all is serviceable with the above then you should move on to stripping the suspension to find out what is the problem.

I was changing the bushes on the front of the pickup yesterday and found a great example of what Phil mentioned. I don’t think these are the original tie bars but I’m glad I found them. There was no obvious clunking or rattling but the bushes were cracked and heavily perished. I ordered a pair of replacements from ESM via eBay as they don’t seem to be available as a pair on their website.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174081186571 ... p_homepage

[svenedin]

My recommendation is to firstly strip out the tie bar and check the rubbers at the front for serviceably. Check for wear of the reduced diameter of the tie bar at the front as it is not unknown for the tie bar to snap due to wear in that location. Check the rear of the tie bar to ensure that the tie bar is held firmly in the yoke of the tie bar rear mount bracket and that the bolt is not worn and the tie bar rear bracket securing nut is tight.
Make sure that the eye bolt bushes are serviceable.
If all is serviceable with the above then you should move on to stripping the suspension to find out what is the problem.

I was changing the bushes on the front of the pickup yesterday and found a great example of what Phil mentioned. I don’t think these are the original tie bars but I’m glad I found them. There was no obvious clunking or rattling but the bushes were cracked and heavily perished. I ordered a pair of replacements from ESM via eBay as they don’t seem to be available as a pair on their website.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174081186571 ... p_homepage

Wow!

[geoberni]

. I ordered a pair of replacements from ESM via eBay as they don’t seem to be available as a pair on their website.

I've had instances of that before when searching for parts.
Even allowing for MMOC Discount, with EMS website shipping charges it was more cost effective to buy from ESM ebay site.

[philthehill]

Just caught in time!!!
If you are having difficulty obtaining Morris Minor tie bars and at the right price Morris Marina/Ital tie bars are virtually the same. The only real difference is that the rear bush washer is welded to the tie bar which is a good thing as the shoulder of the Minor tie bar wears away due to the movement of the tie bar, tie bar rear washer and tie bar bush.

[eng622]

OK can now see how the tie bar bushes fit could not see raised part in pic I looked at. Regarding the ARB looks as if mine is a bodged job (done in a previous ownership). I note that the vertical part of the bracket should be on the inside of the chassis but with that cannot see how you would get the nuts on the bolts retaining the plastic bushes. However it looks I cannot correct mine as the holes through the chassis are too high.
Very good to see how bad the bar can get under the bushes but noted that no rattling present in the example shown.
Can you test the bar for movement in the bushes so to hit the bracket and hear a clonk. If I can eliminate the bar I think it could well be the ARB mounting that is giving me the rattle.

[philthehill]

If fitting the antiroll bar bracket as per the ESM/Owen Burton instructions the vertical part of the bracket should be on the outside of the chassis with the horizontal part under the chassis.
The bracket has two captive nuts fitted to the upper side of the horizontal face. The two bolts pass through the plastic bush and screw into the captive nuts. You may have to dimple the underside of the chassis as the two bolts can foul the underside of the chassis and not allow fully tightening.
Please note that I have fitted an additional mounting brackets to the inside of the chassis as part of improving the mounting of the antiroll bar.
I would suggest that with a bit of thought you could fit the brackets as they should be.
I have just noticed that you have got the antiroll bar rubber mount which is attached to the rear of the tie bar rear the wrong way round. The closed end of the bush tube should be towards the rear. If the bush tube is the wrong way round the bush could work its way out of the tube.
Because the suspension geometry is fixed the rubber bush inside the tube should be able to slide on the tail of the antiroll bar. If it does not slide it will be pulling the antiroll bar mount bracket backwards and forwards which is made worse by the way the antiroll bar mount brackets are fitted to your chassis.
Therefore it is most important that the rubber bush should be lubricated to allow for suspension articulation.

[michael4]

Ours rattled or clattered at the slightest opportunity. Horrible noise.

I know nothing but we have just replaced the steering rack and although the car is not eerily silent the clatter/rattle has gone.

Surely this is not a coincidence...

[myoldjalopy]

Ours rattled or clattered at the slightest opportunity. Horrible noise.

I know nothing but we have just replaced the steering rack and although the car is not eerily silent the clatter/rattle has gone.

Surely this is not a coincidence...

Good news. And not a coincidence, your rack must have been worn. I had a horrible rattle at both front sides. Replacement of the rack cured the off-side noise but there was still a rattle at the near-side, which turned out to be loose damper bolts.