Morris Minor Owners Club

Well, Im trying to way up the pros and cons of uprated torsion bars... Do they really make much difference? Why can you get 50% 70% and 100% uprated ones? Are they just a con to take away my money?

I have a 1275 Trav, with telescopic shocks and will at some point be adding a 5 speed box. I will be lowering it - would the old torsion bars cope?

PROS
Can lower more - (is this true?)
Don't need an anti-roll bar these do the job (is this try?)
Any one know any more???

CONS
£160 + TAX (ouch) - I don't have much wonga.
Why have people sold them secondhand?
Do they do what they say they do?

Cheers everyone!

Yes they do make a difference (they stiffen up the springing).

The 50% 75% and 100% versions give you different suspension 'stiffness'. 100% being the stiffest.

A 1275 trav with telescopics, a 5 speed box and lowered (slightly) will cope just fine with the old torsion bars (as long as they are in good order).

PROS
Can lower more - (is this true?)

YES, but do you NEED to lower it more?

Don't need an anti-roll bar these do the job (is this try?)

Not really, an anti-roll bar might still be benificial (if you NEED it).

Any one know any more???

Yes, if you feel that your car has too soft springing for your tastes (and driving style) then uprate the torsion bars, else keep to the originals!

CONS
£160 + TAX (ouch) - I don't have much wonga.

Then you have answered the question!

Why have people sold them secondhand?

Ask them! But perhaps they have bought a car with them on and have reverted back to originals if the ride was too harsh for them.

Do they do what they say they do?

Yes, they stiffen the suspension! Not a lot more, not a lot less.

I'll let you know shortly as I've just bought a pair for my son's fiat engined Minor from this very site.
I feel they should compensate for the heavier engine, and may save the sump from kissing the tarmac!!

Pete

Maybe the poll question is wrong because the answer surely is yes. e.g it could possibly be compared to "does fitting 7 leaf rear springs instead of 5 leaf really make a difference?" Might have been better asking if the cost involved is worth the expense?
Don't forget to identify left and right on the old ones in case they are refitted at some time.

57traveller wrote:Maybe the poll question is wrong because the answer surely is yes. e.g it could possibly be compared to "does fitting 7 leaf rear springs instead of 5 leaf really make a difference?" Might have been better asking if the cost involved is worth the expense?
Don't forget to identify left and right on the old ones in case they are refitted at some time.

Interestingly, The results on the poll so far show 50% have said no.

Is there any way of telling if a Torsion bar is worn and needs replacing?
Can I buy new standard torsion bars?, (as any secondhand ones might be worn out?)

Once my moggies up and running, I'll test it properly and see if it needs stiffening - can you boy race in a morris minor!?

Cheers

markhughz wrote:Interestingly, The results on the poll so far show 50% have said no.

Probably a misinterpretation of the question...

Is there any way of telling if a Torsion bar is worn and needs replacing?

Well, as the metal fatigues it will 'twist' causing the car to sag. This is very difficult to spot as someone might have adjusted the suspension incorrectly. Generally speaking though it is quite rare for a torsion bar to fail.

Can I buy new standard torsion bars?, (as any secondhand ones might be worn out?)

Never seen new ones advertised.

Once my moggies up and running, I'll test it properly and see if it needs stiffening

Good idea.

- can you boy race in a morris minor!?

Of course you can! If you can do it in an 1100 Fiesta with 52 BHP then why not in an 1100 Minor with 48 BHP? or a 1380 Minor with 120 BHP?

Tell me if i'm wrong but I can only find one supplier of uprated torsion bars - birmingham mm parts centre. I have their latest price sheet and uprated torsion bars are £245 (inc VAT) a pair now. I spoke to them and their website has not been updated for years. So that is a bit more of a CON unless someone can point me in the direction of a cheaper supplier?

Hi,
I have the 100% uprated bars on my Morris with gas tele dampers and an anti roll bar and they have been very good, but then the car is generally uprated/modified and they suit the purpose.

It depends on what you want to achieve? On a reasonably standard car I'm not sure they add much. You could lower the car, a notch, on the standard torsion bars and with your tele dampers it should be OK for normal road use. Though it depends on how much you want to lower it

A possible cheaper option is, I seem to remember, if you can find a Marina you can take the torsion bars off and use them with a little modification. I believe they give a 30% uprating. I'm sure someone can confirm or deny.

Regards,
Wal

I've heard that too Wal. Apparently the Marina van (or pickup) torsion bars give slightly more stiffness.

Well the bath morris mnor parts centre sell the fitting kit for marina torsion bars

Wal wrote: A possible cheaper option is, I seem to remember, if you can find a Marina you can take the torsion bars off and use them with a little modification. I believe they give a 30% uprating. I'm sure someone can confirm or deny.

These sound like a good option - something i could afford. (£245 for upgraded ones is a bit beyond buget). Does anyone know where I might find some Marina torsion bars? Do they have to be from a particular Marina?

Cheers, Mark

Hi Mark,
Just out of interest - how much have you driven the car with its standard set up?

markhughz wrote: Does anyone know where I might find some Marina torsion bars? Do they have to be from a particular Marina?

Cheers, Mark

The obvious answer is "on a Marina", but you'd be hard pressed to find one in a scrappy now - they used to be as common as barking alsatians. From (distant) memory, they were the same on 1275 and 1800 cars. My guess would be an owners club, who may know somewhere that re-manufactures.

The 1.8 Marina/Ital is the only version with uprated torsion bars, the 1275's had the same rating as the Minor. You can modify your cross member to fit the full torsion bar set up quite easily. You will need to weld a substancial plate on the underside of the floor to accomodate the adjuster mechanism. You should also use both bottob suspension arms from the Marina/Ital donor.
We found that unless the car is lowered more than one spline then a decent uprated damper kit is sufficient. It will also negate the need for the anti roll bar.
The downside we experienced with uprated bars is that the car becomes very unsettled on undulating surfaces, giving a poor and pitchy ride quality.
It is also important that you treat suspension mods as systems, and not just modify the front and leave the rears standard. There are good systems for sale which are of reputable quality that will sort out the suspension issues you are experiencing.

Told you it was a distant memory

I am getting very confused now I've been trying to find out about all this myself as I am thinking of switching my torsion bars to uprated ones (probably 50% or 75%). I'm getting mixed messages though - whilst Wal and Cam (I think) BOTH have uprated torsion bars AND anti-roll bars, Jonathon says that uprated bars negate the need for an anti-roll bar. However, i have read in the Classics magazine review on the JLH site that the test car did in fact have both - strange if one negates the other? As I have just fitted an anti-roll bar and don’t want to negate the cost of that I would like to know what is correct? I have tele dampers too.

Also, from my basic knowledge of physics, don't forces that act perpendicular to each act independently (ie: one does not effect the other) and as torsion bars are at right angles to the anti-roll bar, surely they cope with different forces acting on the car when cornering/going over bumps etc? That would mean that the anti-roll bar does a slightly different job? I am aware though that if uprated torsion bars stiffen the suspension then there is likely to be less roll in the first place for the anti-roll bar to deal with! See how confused I am

Any thoughts?

That would mean that the anti-roll bar does a slightly different job? I am aware though that if uprated torsion bars stiffen the suspension then there is likely to be less roll in the first place for the anti-roll bar to deal with!

That's kind of the point - the car rolls less with uprated springs (torsion bars). Therefore the anti roll bar has less to do, but due to the uprated springs it has to work twice as hard to do it so is also less effective from that respect too (i.e. the effect of using an anti roll bar is seriously reduced when you have uprated springs). It does however depend on how much uprated you go for.

Hi, that's what I kind of thought but was wondering if people with both could tell me if, in their experience, there is any point of having both?

I assume, if what you say is correct (i'm sure it is ), that a car with a less uprated torsion bar (say 50%) will make more use of an anti-roll system than say a 100% uprating? The result being that the car is not quite as 'stiff' as the 100% uprated ride but handles pretty well?

I was also wondering why one of the JLH cars in a review on their site has both but Jonathon said one negated the use for the other. Why would both be used then? Unless it was part of the R&D of course.

Well, speaking as the owner of 100% torsion bars and no anti-roll bar, I don't feel that I need one. But it would be of benift to stop body roll on a less uprated car. I have JLH radius arms at the rear which are acting as a rear anti-roll bar as well so this is stabilising the car more in my case.

Basically the anti-roll bar reduces side to side body roll (bodyshell to wheels) whereas torsion bars reduce vertical movement of the wheels, so uprating the torsion bars will ALSO reduce body roll by the fact that the suspension is stiffer.

So, an anti-roll bar is a good idea unless you have stiffened the suspension to the point where it's use becomes redundant.

Right! So I guess the crux is how stiff (ahem) you go? So if I were to go for moderately uprated torsion bars - say the 50% - to improove handling but not make the ride too (I know it's subjective) hard then the roll-bar might well come into play and the overall handling should be pretty good without my girlfriend complaining about the, erm, how do you put it without sounding rude, ride/ hardness? I wonder how uprated Wal's torsion bars are because he did say he had an anti-roll bar too.