Morris Minor Pickup 1965 not starting

[Letham]

Hi,
I'm a newbie Moggie buyer. I took delivery of a Morris Minor 1965 pickup last week. When it was delivered the driver drove it off the transport and parked it up.

However, I have not been able to start it since then. I have pulled the choke fully out and turned the key a qtr turn but nothing. There is no noise, the engine doesn't turn, no lights come on etc. I have tried various combinations but still no joy. Spoke to both the garage bought from and the delivery driver and both said it should start on the turn of the key. I have check the battery all good.

I'm now at my wits end and don't know what to try next.

I really would appreciate assistance with this. The garage said perhaps I need to get a new engine key to try this.

Fingers crossed someone could assist me as desperate to get it going and drive it along with moving it from where it was left.

Many thanks

[svenedin]

You say the battery is good. How did you check it?

It is probably something very simple. Either a flat battery (charge it or get a jump start from a friend) or you just need to remove the terminals from the battery, clean the terminals with some abrasive (a dry pot scourer will do) replace the terminals and try again. Morris Minor sidelights and headlights do not turn off when the ignition is turned off and there is no warning bong like a modern car so if you don't know it is very easy to get a flat battery. If you get a jump start be very careful that you check the polarity of your new Morris. Almost all Morris Minors (except the very last ones) were POSITIVE earth but many have been changed to NEGATIVE earth (which is the norm these days).

Stephen

Video is me starting my car

https://youtu.be/t_zNNKYz2f0

[les]

Does the ignition lamp light up when you turn on the ignition, if not battery connection may be bad. If driver drove it off of the transport, I imagine wiring is ok. I presume there is no battery isolator fitted.

[svenedin]

Does the ignition lamp light up when you turn on the ignition, if not battery connection may be bad. If driver drove it off of the transport, I imagine wiring is ok. I presume there is no battery isolator fitted.

OP said no lights when he turns the key. I did think about a battery isolator but if there is one you’d think they would have mentioned it!

Stephen

[Letham]

thanks for the replies.
That video you provided Stephen was very useful. As I don't get any lights on to indicate ignition on etc
I did put a battery charger on it, it was reading as if not flat. I think I will put the charger back on again and leave it for a few hours. I will totally disconnect the battery first. The negative terminal on the battery is earthed to the car. I will be safe and remove both terminals before charging and then put back exactly as is.

Thanks for the tip re the lights. Perhaps I put the switches in the downwards position when I was trying all scenarios to get it to start.

Can I ask something re the key - I assume when lights on etc that they key will turn the next qtr turn - mine gives impression only wanting to go 1st quarter turn.

Thanks a million.

I will let you know how I get on.

[geoberni]

Almost all Morris Minors (except the very last ones)....

Really Stephen?
What gave you that idea?
To the best of my knowledge, no Minor ever left the factory Neg Earth.
The only area of doubt I have is overseas markets, particularly Antipodean, where they have a lot of autonomy in their assembly plant.

[svenedin]

Almost all Morris Minors (except the very last ones)....

Really Stephen?
What gave you that idea?
To the best of my knowledge, no Minor ever left the factory Neg Earth.
The only area of doubt I have is overseas markets, particularly Antipodean, where they have a lot of autonomy in their assembly plant.

I believe the very last Austin vans were negative earth or so a member of my MMOC branch insists regarding his van.......I think the very last Travellers may have been negative earth dynamo but I would need to find a reference for that.

Stephen

[svenedin]

thanks for the replies.
That video you provided Stephen was very useful. As I don't get any lights on to indicate ignition on etc
I did put a battery charger on it, it was reading as if not flat. I think I will put the charger back on again and leave it for a few hours. I will totally disconnect the battery first. The negative terminal on the battery is earthed to the car. I will be safe and remove both terminals before charging and then put back exactly as is.

Thanks for the tip re the lights. Perhaps I put the switches in the downwards position when I was trying all scenarios to get it to start.

Can I ask something re the key - I assume when lights on etc that they key will turn the next qtr turn - mine gives impression only wanting to go 1st quarter turn.

Thanks a million.

I will let you know how I get on.

Glad the video was useful. The key goes 1/4 turn clockwise to 1st position (ignition on) and the oil pressure light (yellow/orange) and charge light (red) should come on. Then the key goes further clockwise to operate the starter momentarily. Once the engine starts the oil pressure light should go out very quickly (as in my video). The charge light should also go out though it may glow slightly at idling revs.

The exception to this is in older Morris Minors that have pull start. You turn the ignition key 1/4 turn to ignition on and then pull the starter knob rather than turning the key further.

As no lights come on the battery is either flat or there is a bad connection.

Whereabout are you in the UK (or the world)?

Stephen

[Bill_qaz]

thanks for the replies.
That video you provided Stephen was very useful. As I don't get any lights on to indicate ignition on etc
I did put a battery charger on it, it was reading as if not flat. I think I will put the charger back on again and leave it for a few hours. I will totally disconnect the battery first. The negative terminal on the battery is earthed to the car. I will be safe and remove both terminals before charging and then put back exactly as is.

Thanks for the tip re the lights. Perhaps I put the switches in the downwards position when I was trying all scenarios to get it to start.

Can I ask something re the key - I assume when lights on etc that they key will turn the next qtr turn - mine gives impression only wanting to go 1st quarter turn.

Thanks a million.

I will let you know how I get on.

Are you sure it is key start, not sure about year change or if your car is standard but some minors are pull start, right hand black button with S.
If you have later key start it should have a spring loaded position to start after ignition on.
Are you saying the key does not go to this potion regardless of battery?
Just a thought did you get more than one key? If so try one of the others.
Or maybe the switch itself is faulty, try wiggling the key whilst turning.

[geoberni]

I believe the very last Austin vans were negative earth or so a member of my MMOC branch insists regarding his van.......I think the very last Travellers may have been negative earth dynamo but I would need to find a reference for that.

Stephen

I know BL made a lot of very strange decisions, but as an engineer, I cannot imagine anyone authorising the change to Negative Earth in the final year or months of production, simply due to the cost, and we know how tight margins were.
It's not a decision to be lightly taken, anything being mass produced has to be made to a standard as laid down in the drawings and work sheets; you can't just make the decision to change, it would have to be notified to all manner of people, not least notifying all the dealerships.
There has to be a documented Change Point in the build standard.

Unless your branch member has been the sole owner of his vehicle since new, I'd just leave him to his own little world.
It's not worth discussing if someone hold onto an unsupported idea.

[svenedin]

I believe the very last Austin vans were negative earth or so a member of my MMOC branch insists regarding his van.......I think the very last Travellers may have been negative earth dynamo but I would need to find a reference for that.

Stephen

I know BL made a lot of very strange decisions, but as an engineer, I cannot imagine anyone authorising the change to Negative Earth in the final year or months of production, simply due to the cost, and we know how tight margins were.
It's not a decision to be lightly taken, anything being mass produced has to be made to a standard as laid down in the drawings and work sheets; you can't just make the decision to change, it would have to be notified to all manner of people, not least notifying all the dealerships.
There has to be a documented Change Point in the build standard.

Unless your branch member has been the sole owner of his vehicle since new, I'd just leave him to his own little world.
It's not worth discussing if someone hold onto an unsupported idea.

Agreed. The point I was making is that the OP should be very careful about polarity. Nothing can be assumed.

Stephen

[myoldjalopy]

Well, for the record, Ray Newell's Original Morris Minor states that "Some later vehicles supplied to to the police and the armed services had an alternator fitted". He goes on to list engine numbers for those that had the alternator. However, I believe these were positive earth alternators, so this may be where the confusion comes from, as it would be entirely possible for someone to assume that an alternator specified a negative earth vehicle.
However, this doesn't really help the OP start his car.........

[svenedin]

Well, for the record, Ray Newell's Original Morris Minor states that "Some later vehicles supplied to to the police and the armed services had an alternator fitted". He goes on to list engine numbers for those that had the alternator. However, I believe these were positive earth alternators, so this may be where the confusion comes from, as it would be entirely possible for someone to assume that an alternator specified a negative earth vehicle.
However, this doesn't really help the OP start his car.........

Yes they were definitely positive earth alternator and ESM did offer refurbished positive earth alternators on exchange until quite recently I believe.

Stephen

[Bill_qaz]

There is no need to asume or guess, the positive battery post is a larger diameter than the negative when connecting battery charger or jump leads.

[geoberni]

thanks for the replies.
That video you provided Stephen was very useful. As I don't get any lights on to indicate ignition on etc
I did put a battery charger on it, it was reading as if not flat. I think I will put the charger back on again and leave it for a few hours. I will totally disconnect the battery first. The negative terminal on the battery is earthed to the car. I will be safe and remove both terminals before charging and then put back exactly as is.

Thanks for the tip re the lights. Perhaps I put the switches in the downwards position when I was trying all scenarios to get it to start.

Can I ask something re the key - I assume when lights on etc that they key will turn the next qtr turn - mine gives impression only wanting to go 1st quarter turn.

Thanks a million.

I will let you know how I get on.

From this we know the Car is Neg Earth.
A Key Start will be turn to 1st position and the Ign/Oil Lights come on.
It is then sprung loaded to a further momentary position which will engage the starter.
Releasing the key it will return to the 1st position while running.
If you can't get to that additional 2nd position, it might be that you have the wrong key.
It's not a full additional 1/4 turn, that would put the key vertical again, it's barely an additional 1/16th turn.
(That's a guess from other vehicles, since mine is a Pull Start )
Equally, if you're getting no Ign/Oil Lights at the 1st position, then the battery seem dead (baring other electrical faults) and has possibly been drained after it was delivered.

[oliver90owner]

Seems to me that this new owner might be well advised to obtain a multimeter and learn how to make basic electrical checks.

They can show up some of the simple faults which a newbie might come across. Indeed, a fairly basic meter is all that is needed for all the likely electrical faults on these old cars. Even a simple test lamp can be quite useful.

[Letham]

Hi,

thanks for all the replies. My update:

the battery is fully charged - as I removed it fully and put a charger on it. Many hours later I put a bit of wire to both terminals and the sparks were strong. Put battery back on (as it was previously) and no change whatsoever.

Though I have 2 keys only one works. I did ask the garage where I bought it from as to what I'm doing wrong/hand. They advised that it has always started when the key is turned. I just needed to put key in, pull choke full out and try key. As I still had the number of the person that delivered it I asked them and they said they same. I however remember the delivery guy saying something about to stop it I had to pull a knob / lever (where is this?). It is a 1965 - registered in the August of that year.

I've attached a photo of my dash. I'm not sure what the switch above the choke is for. I have tried it in both positions.

I put key in, (straight up and down) pull out choke, and turn key 1/4 turn to the right. No lights, don't here the starter or anything making a noise. So I'm guessing must be a bad electrical connection somehow to the key?

FYI - I live just south of Edinburgh. I will need to try and get hold of mechanic next week to see if they can help me.

This female is now stumped.

thanks
Linda

[Chief]

Do Minor Pickups have interior lights, if so, does it work since that wouldn't require the ignition etc. and you'd know if there was any power getting anywhere at all.

If there isn't any interior light, or it doesn't illuminate either then I would check all the fuses in case one or more of them has blown.

Is it possible there's an isolator switch fitted and that it was always in the on position allowing voltage through, but has somehow got into the off position thus not allowing any electrics (for example I don't know the later cars, but svenedins' video doesn't have that toggle switch by the speedo I'm guessing hazards and you already tried both directions anyway).

something about to stop it I had to pull a knob / lever (where is this?).

The handbrake? (no idea, but at a stretch you could refer to an isolator switch as such)

[myoldjalopy]

The front and rear lights should come on if the switch to the right of the ignition key is switched on, even with ignition off.
As to this mysterious knob for stopping the car (engine?), it could be some kind of hidden isolator switch, but you would think the guy who delivered the vehicle would have been quite explicit about that if it were the case. Normally the engine stops when the ignition switch is turned off.
As Linda has said that "When it was delivered the driver drove it off the transport", it was clearly running OK at that point. It has to be something simple.

[Bill_qaz]

Can you post a picture showing cables from battery both sides to see if we can see an isolator