Morris Minor Owners Club

Hi <BR><BR>I have just acquired a 1964 saloon that has been lowered by about 2" and fitted with telescopic dampers front and rear. I would like to return the car to its normal road height as I live in an area surrounded by speed bumps. Can I use the same dampers or will the travel be incorrect, and where can I source&nbsp;replacement&nbsp;dampers for a normal ride height?<BR><BR>regards<BR><BR>Dave

Difficult to say if the travel will be OK or not. It depends on the dampers and who fitted them.

You should still have the original dampers on the front (they act as a top suspension arm). Take the telescopic dampers off and check to see if the original ones damp. If not, then they will have had the little valves taken out. If so, then get some and re-fit them!

The rear ones will have been removed so you'll have to buy some new ones. Minor spares suppliers supply front and rear dampers but there is a surcharge on the old items. You can buy them outright but I would get hold of some cheap 2nd hand ones and use them if they are OK or exchange them for the new ones.

Have a look at:
http://shop.morrisminorspares.co.uk/ind ... 684787606b

http://shop.morrisminorspares.co.uk/ind ... 684787606b

I don't think the Minor suppliers supply the little valves, so if you need some either get some out of 2nd hand dampers or ask in the wanted section on here.

The ride height (front) can be put back to normal by adjusting the torsion bar settings (explained in the Haynes manual). The rear will probably have lowering blocks which you remove and use normal (shorter) U-bolts for the axle fixing.

OR you can simply relocate the existing telescopics but that might involve a little fabrication.

Some thoughts on the rear damper set-up as I have just had a
failure on my system. Since you have been lowered you will
obviously have to remove the lowering blocks between the rear axle
and the spring and obtain a set of the original size 'U' bolts. This
should leave you with a distance,in the 'rest'(unladen) position of
1+1/2 inches between the top of the rear rubber buffer and its stop
plate. I just happen to have taken the measurements available on
the original lever arm dampers and they are, from the 'rest' position,
1. The axle could go UP a further 3+3/4" and the axle could go DOWN
a further 4+3/4". This obviously gives an overall movement of 8+1/2".
I doubt if your telescopics have that capability? My rear teles which
are uprated Mini fronts only have a total movement of 4+1/2" which
may explain why the load bearing top mountings snapped in half! If
you just want total reliability then revert to the original lever arm damper
set-up( it cost me £20 per damper as I had no old ones to part exchange)
but you are sure going to notice a difference from your lowered, tele-
damper set-up. It doesn't take long to get used to it though.
CAM has covered the front problems.
EDIT...if you are thinking of reverting to the original lever arm dampers
make sure that the top pivot pins (1/2" diameter with a 3/8 BSF nut,
castellated,on the end) are still there! They may have been removed!

The front suspension is easily raised by re-setting the lower arms on the torsion bars - the rear may just be settled with age - or it may have spacers fitted as Willie says. Use thicker oil in the standard dampers to retain some semblanace of controil on the suspension - ande then check the telescopics to see if they can still be used.

Just to let you know, there is a danger of shearing the mounting bolts off if you use a thicker oil than specified for the dampers. Some people have done this with good results, but others have had their suspension collapse!

It would appear that the advice is to change oil in the dampers with suggestions from 20/50 to m/c fork oil.

Which then is the "specified " oil and which grade of oil will prove the best for a "daily driver"? Why is it necessary to change the oil anyway???

I was advised to put hydraulic jack oil in mine so that’s what’s in there

It would appear that the advice is to change oil in the dampers

that's a new one on me... although after 40 years and a few times round the clock, the old oil may well be poor and also ahve a bit of water in it.

millerman wrote:It would appear that the advice is to change oil in the dampers with suggestions from 20/50 to m/c fork oil.

From memory, the specified oil is Armstrong Hydraulic (?) Oil, not available any more, but fork oil or Jack oil are much the same. I'd have thought that the oil would be a bit worn out, having been squeezed through tiny holes in the damper several million times.

You should definitely drain out the old oil which will have been destroyed by years of use - the long chain molecules are litterally ripped apart. Fill with what you will - thin engine oil works well, 20W50 is better, and EP 90 is better still. The bolts story is just rhubarb - but do check they are pulled up good and tight . The only thing that will break the bolts is if the suspension can over-travel the dampers - usually caused by lack of bump stops or missing re-bound stops - obviously make sure these are in place. I rallied my old Minor for many years with thick oil dampers AND the valves adjusted up - and never had any problems. The folks who have snapped bolts have just not done it correctly !!

Cam, Willie et all.
Thanks for the info and advice. The rear pivot pins are intact so a return to standard looks a relatively straightforward task. I notice from looking at some other messages that lowered cars often had Marina torsion bars fitted also, is it possible to find out if this has been done by measuring the diameter of the bar? If Marina bars have been fitted are they OK to leave on once the car is back to standard ride height?
thanks

Dave

I think the marina bars would have the marina vernier adjusters at the rear (on the corssmember) as opposed to the Minor arm and plate-with-holes-in.

If you HAVE got marina bars fitted then they will be perfectly fine when adjusted to the correct height.

Just as a note though.......... you can lower the car with the standard Minor bars, the Marina one would not have been fitted to lower the car, but to increase the springing thus providing a firmer ride (harder suspension).

Fill with what you will - thin engine oil works well, 20W50 is better, and EP 90 is better still. The bolts story is just rhubarb - but do check they are pulled up good and tight . The only thing that will break the bolts is if the suspension can over-travel the dampers - usually caused by lack of bump stops or missing re-bound stops - obviously make sure these are in place. I rallied my old Minor for many years with thick oil dampers AND the valves adjusted up - and never had any problems. The folks who have snapped bolts have just not done it correctly !!

Sorry to disagree but the dampers are designed to work at their best with the correct spec oil, and you are saying you have not had problems well I can accept that but to say others who have had problems is rhubarb seems to conflict with your opinion as there seem to have been far more problems over the years than sucess with using the uprated oil spec.

Have to agree with bmcecosse, I've used EP90 in minor dampers and spax adjustables - no problems in 80,000 miles - car had full race MGB engine fitted, so needed a bit more assistance than normal - never heard of shearing mounting bolts though - they do need tightened on a regular basis though even with lock tabs fitted. I got a full turn on each bolt on son's minor once lock tabs knocked back, so perhaps they could shear if loose.

Regarding torsion bars. Marina or uprated bars are usually fitted fo two reasons. If you have lowered your car by one spline then you will loose a % of the spring rate, for example standard bars are about 200lbs lowering will decrease this to approx 150lbs. To counter this fitting a 30% uprated torsion bar like the standard Marina one will partly address the loss of spring rate. The other reason for uprating the torsion bar is to harden the ride of a standard height car. If you are thinking of fitting the Marina torsion bars, remember that they have the same spring rate as the Minor commercials, the latter is much more straight forward to fit, as with the Marina ones you need to swap the eyebolt pin,open out the hole on the cross member and produce a slotted hole for the adjuster locking nut. You also need to reinforce the floor where the micrometer adjuster will contact.

I've used EP90 in minor dampers and spax adjustables - no problems in 80,000 miles -

The additional dampers will reduce the load on the original shocks., so this is likely to have made the bolts last longer. As you need to keep retightening the mounting bolts this indedd points out it is outside their design range, and as you mentioned loose bolts is going to lead to rapid failure.
If new parts were likely to be good quality it may be worth changing them every year - with parts as they are today, new parts seem more likely to fail.
I guess it's also partly luck as some people get lots of halfshaft problems, yet in many many years of lead footed driving I've never had that problem.

If the shock bolts issue just meant that you lose damping action, then there's no big issue - however if the bolts fail you'll loose the suspension/steering control. Therefore it's pretty understandable for comments to be on the cautious side.

Don't mention halfshafts. I used to carry a spare diff and shafts when I went on holiday. Funny thing is I never broke a minor shaft - just riley or wolseley. The minor shafts must have had a bit of reserve strength in them from being understressed in a minor.
With regards to damper bolts, I'd wager that if they haven't been re-tightened at some time in the car's life, you will be surprised at how much you can tighten them.

How can lowering the car possibly change the spring rate ?? This is just non-sense ! The torsion bar is spring steel and is perfectly linear in it's rate - lowering the car by one spline just changes the starting point - the bar is still pre-loaded by the weight of the car - and the spring rate stays the same !! Each inch of movement still requires the same increase in load. Marina bars may well have a higher rating - but for road use the standard Minor bars are fine !

I only had to tighten the front damper bolts when first working on the car - checks later showed them to be still nice and tight. Never had any problems with suspension breakages anywhere - and the car was used on some very rough 'white' roads at full tilt when on rallies !! However - bump stops MUST be in good condition and PRESENT at all times (and that includes the rear) if you over-travel the suspension - that's when it breaks !!

How can lowering the car possibly change the spring rate ?? This is just non-sense !

If we're going to be pedantic, then it will actually change the rate. The lower arm comes closer to horizontal, thus a different stress to the torsion bar for the same wheel load (The wheel load acts perpendicular instead of at a slight angle - the direction of load relative to the perpendicular added to the slight radius change gives a different effective spring rate depending on how high the suspension is set - not that anyone needs to worry about it)
For those who hadn't worked out what JLH meant, my interpretatyion was - Lowering suspension brings the car closer to its bump stops, therefore to absorb the same resultant force from the road (bumps / cornering / heavily laden car etc...) without bottoming out, you need a higher rated torsion bar.