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NOS Paper Filters - Be careful
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:06 am
by Andymoor94
Hi guys,
Just a word of caution, as I'm seeing these filters for sale on Facebook and eBay a lot.
All filters, be it air, oil or fuel, have a shelf life. Most filters are made out of cellulose (paper) media and perish over time. After 5 years, the media is compromised. For this reason, oil and fuel are usable up to 5 years, and air filters up to 10 years.
Obviously, this is going to also depend on the storage environment. Dare I say these filters aren't kept in the same controlled conditions some of our cars are in.
So when you think you're saving a couple of pennies by buying NOS filters, you may not actually be doing your car a whole world of good!
Re: NOS Paper Filters - Be careful
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:53 am
by MCYorks
Andymoor94 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:06 am
So when you think you're saving a couple of pennies by buying NOS filters, you may not actually be doing your car a whole world of good!
Minor owners looking at saving a couple of pennies. Never!
A very fair point though. Some of the examples currently listed on various auction sites, are clearly only suitable for use as historic display pieces.
If a filter has been sitting in a damp and dusty garage / shed / storeroom for a couple decades, then it's likely past its best. I do wonder how many Minors are driving around with ineffective oil filters, simply because the various washers, seals and spring are missing or incorrectly assembled.
Re: NOS Paper Filters - Be careful
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:52 pm
by geoberni
I agree, perishable products are not worth getting as 'NOS'.
It's hard to get a definitive answer, since manufacturers don't seem to publish such data, but when you consider what an old cardboard box or newspaper would be like after 20 years in the garage or loft, would you expect the oil filter paper to do any better?
Equally, the O Ring is very likely to perish, just like any other NOS Rubber product would.
If you search for phrases like 'Do Oil Filters have a shelf life?' you naturally get lots of ill informed guess work like any other question on social media, but storage conditions are a very significant factor.
Any NOS BMC original filters should be avoided for actual use....
What's the guess, 55 years old, perhaps more....
- Filter.JPG (137.62 KiB) Viewed 2060 times
Re: NOS Paper Filters - Be careful
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:15 pm
by Andymoor94
geoberni wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:52 pm
I agree, perishable products are not worth getting as 'NOS'.
It's hard to get a definitive answer, since manufacturers don't seem to publish such data, but when you consider what an old cardboard box or newspaper would be like after 20 years in the garage or loft, would you expect the oil filter paper to do any better?
Equally, the O Ring is very likely to perish, just like any other NOS Rubber product would.
If you search for phrases like 'Do Oil Filters have a shelf life?' you naturally get lots of ill informed guess work like any other question on social media, but storage conditions are a very significant factor.
Any NOS BMC original filters should be avoided for actual use....
What's the guess, 55 years old, perhaps more....
Filter.JPG
I work in a Yorkshire-based filter distributor and I've seen first hand what filters in a clean warehouse look like after 5 years - So yes, that 55 year old NOS filter would be the equivalent of used toilet paper
Re: NOS Paper Filters - Be careful
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:05 pm
by JOWETTJAVELIN
I use these old filters exclusively when in good condition. I wouldn't pay £15 or more for one though! Maybe being sold as a collector's item?!
Re: NOS Paper Filters - Be careful
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:19 pm
by geoberni
JOWETTJAVELIN wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:05 pm
I use these old filters exclusively when in good condition. I wouldn't pay £15 or more for one though! Maybe being sold as a collector's item?!
Being sold for whatever they can get for it more like.....
Page description reads:
A boxed New Old Stock genuine original BMC oil filter
Original BMC part number 8G684
Comes with 2 rubber seals and a small piece of greaseproof type tracing paper
On the box is printed Austin A35 A40 Healey Sprite, Morris Minor, MG Midget & 8G684
The lid of the box is missing but does not detract
Please see all pics to determine accuracy of description
Great for display and filter can be used on next service as filter looks as good as new.
Will post by courier with insurance as it's irreplaceable or collect from B'ham B20
Ready to fit / enjoy / display / add to original service kit
Re: NOS Paper Filters - Be careful
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:28 pm
by Andymoor94
geoberni wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:19 pm
JOWETTJAVELIN wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:05 pm
I use these old filters exclusively when in good condition. I wouldn't pay £15 or more for one though! Maybe being sold as a collector's item?!
Being sold for whatever they can get for it more like.....
Page description reads:
Great for display and filter can be used on next service as filter looks as good as new.
Oh for christ's sake
Re: NOS Paper Filters - Be careful
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:30 pm
by MorrisJohn
I noticed the same thing Andy. I was searching for an oil filter a couple of days ago and noticed a lot of cheap NOS on eBay.
I bought a new one. Don’t know why people would take the risk just to save a couple of pounds.
Thanks for highlighting the shelf lives of different types of filter.
.
Re: NOS Paper Filters - Be careful
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:49 pm
by les
How much can one save by buying an old stock filter? Answer,—— a few pence !
Re: NOS Paper Filters - Be careful
Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:35 pm
by mike1864
The same warning applies to old cork gaskets. I was puzzled that that a rocker cover gasket I'd kept for several years was - when I came to fit it -half an inch shorter than the cover. Then I realised the cork had simply dried out and shrunk!
Re: NOS Paper Filters - Be careful
Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:32 pm
by MCYorks
Another important point to consider when dealing with various NOS gaskets, is depending on their age, some old gaskets could possibly comprise of compressed asbestos fibre. Before it was banned, asbestos was a standard component in many gaskets, and was not just restricted to head and exhaust gaskets.
There's also the danger that NOS gaskets, rubber hoses and seals may not be compatible with modern unleaded fuels. The last thing you want is the fuel system springing a leak
The thing that's always puzzled me is why some rubber components can last years, while others begin to crack and degrade after only a few months.
Re: NOS Paper Filters - Be careful
Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:34 am
by geoberni
MCYorks wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:32 pm
The thing that's always puzzled me is why some rubber components can last years, while others begin to crack and degrade after only a few months.
I think you'll find that is down to the relative mixture of substances in the 'Rubber'. Basically there's more than one recipe for synthetic rubber.
See this Wiki page, the Natural v Synthetic bit at the bottom:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_rubber
Re: NOS Paper Filters - Be careful
Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:02 pm
by taupe
I just bought a NOS clutch kit for my traveller..Been looking for a while as the modern (non asbestos) ones are not very good quality
- Clutch Kit.JPG (1.83 MiB) Viewed 1851 times
I suspect it is 1960s stock looking at the packaging..
Borg and beck then very good quality...
You lot can leave the old stock stuff for me!
Thanks!
Taupe
Re: NOS Paper Filters - Be careful
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:22 pm
by Edward1949
Re: NOS Paper Filters - Be careful
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:25 am
by Andymoor94
taupe wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:02 pm
I just bought a NOS clutch kit for my traveller..Been looking for a while as the modern (non asbestos) ones are not very good quality
Clutch Kit.JPG
I suspect it is 1960s stock looking at the packaging..
Borg and beck then very good quality...
You lot can leave the old stock stuff for me!
Thanks!
Taupe
NOS mechanical parts, I don't see why not!
Filters, no no
Re: NOS Paper Filters - Be careful
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:57 pm
by MCYorks
geoberni wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:34 am
MCYorks wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:32 pm
The thing that's always puzzled me is why some rubber components can last years, while others begin to crack and degrade after only a few months.
I think you'll find that is down to the relative mixture of substances in the 'Rubber'. Basically there's more than one recipe for synthetic rubber.
See this Wiki page, the Natural v Synthetic bit at the bottom:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_rubber
I'm sure the type of rubber and the 'recipe' has a lot to do with it. Some rubber types are not chemically compatible with certain fluids, but you would expect a coolant hose to be compatible with antifreeze. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any easy way to tell the good from the bad, until the part is actually put into service. Personally, I've only ever had problems with replacement components. Most OEM rubber parts seem to last a long time. Maybe they use a better 'grade' material so they don't end up with warranty claims
