springs again

[stuffedpike20]

The saga continues...
I took one of my original springs off, and it has a thick metal pad top and bottom fixed to it by the central bolt that goes through all of the leaves.
The new springs do not have these pads. I phoned the supplier, and they said I should fit the rubber pads that saloons use on the top and bottom of the springs. My question is.... should a pickup also have the thin metal 'carriers' for the rubber pads, the shaped carriers that with four holes in for the U bolts to go through.
It is an Austin badged pickup- are they different?
Can I use the rubber pads without the carriers?

[philthehill]

The pickup does not have the rubber pads. The pads are replaced by sold metal plates top and bottom Pt No: ACA5202 (No: 17 in Les's picture below).

The pin/dowel bolt that goes through the spring and the top and bottom plates is Pt No: Pt No: AAA4046 (No: 13 in Les's picture below) and is different to the pin/dowel bolt used with the saloon springs.

See diagram below (if you save the picture then enlarge it will be very much clearer).

pickup.jpg (107.86 KiB) Viewed 1230 times

You can use the rubber Pt No: SUS712/poly Pt No: SUS712A pads if you so want but you do need the carrier plates Pt No: SUS711 top and bottom.

You do have to discard the solid metal plates Pt No: ACA5202 when converting to rubber/poly spring pads.

The solid metal plates are there to securely locate the axle to the springs so removing any possibility of movement between axle case and springs.

As an aside - it is my intention when I can get round to it to remove the top carrier plates and rubber/poly pads from my Minor and substitute them with the solid plates so as to improve the location of the axle on the modified traveller springs.

[les]

I have a close up of the springs, which may give addition help.

F186F545-D185-455A-8DE1-BB32024CC2F2.jpeg (314.27 KiB) Viewed 1203 times

[stuffedpike20]

Thank you both.
Am I right in thinking that I should remove the metal pads from the original springs, undo the central bolts on the new springs, and fit the pads to them?
And, is there a torque setting for the U bolt nuts to make sure that nothing moves ?

Thanks, John.

P.S. My old quarter ton van manual shows the rubber pads and carriers in use. Is that just for series 2 commercials?

[les]

Well I should imagine if the collective thickness of all the leaves are the same for the new and old, what you suggest makes sense. I don’t know if the springs you bought are actually lcv ones, I’m not sure of the saloon configuration.
All you can do is replicate the items in the picture.
I don’t know of a torque for the nuts, however they are locked by the addition of another thinner nut

[stuffedpike20]

They are 8 leaf and were listed as pickup springs. They are the same thickness as the old springs without the metal pads.
They came form ESM, and they told me to use the rubber pads.
I think all of their spring kits, saloon or pickup, use the rubber pads.

[philthehill]

The problem is that the metal pads are no longer available so if you do not have the original metal pads you are stuck - therefore you are obliged to use the rubber pads and carrier plated.
You do not have to undo the pin/dowel to remove the metal pads. The metal pads just slip over the top/bottom of the pin/dowel.

Rubber pads and carrier plates do not appear in the BMC parts list AKD 559 (third edition) for the 1/4 ton van.

There is no torque setting for the rear axle 'U' bolts. They are just nipped up tight but not so tight so as to distort the rubber pads.
But as a guide Marina Van 'U' bolts which are the same dia as the Minor and are torqued to 18 lbf ft to 23 lbf ft.
As above the original main nut is locked by a half nut but most use a self locking nylock nut.
Make sure that the bottom plate that carries the damper is parallel to the spring bottom face.

The ACA5202 plates I have were obtained S/H from Les.

[stuffedpike20]

Thank you Les and Phil!
Great advice as usual.
I hit the metal pads on the original springs with a hammer, hoping that it might just be rust holding them on. Unfortunately the pads are definitely bolted with the central bolt. I will get them off tomorrow and try to drill them to fit the new springs.
I am in no way disrespecting ESM for their advice. They are always helpful, and where would we be without suppliers like them?
Sorry to the non-pickup owners, this must be an annoying post to you.

Thanks again, John.

P.S. Page I2 of my brown coloured Morris Quarter Ton Van workshop manual (BMC Morris Motors LTD Cowley) does show the carriers and rubber pads being used with an 8 leaf spring. The diagramme shows an early grille, so I assumed series 2.

[philthehill]

I have got the pads (top and bottom, the bolts nuts and sleeves I had from Les in front of me as I write.

The pin/dowel is not bolted through the pad but is bolted through the 8 leaves of the spring. The head of the pin/dowel fits inside the raised centre boss of the top pad.
The lower threaded end of the pin/dowel fits through an insert/distance piece Pt No: ACA5000, item No: 14 in Les's diagram. The insert/distance piece replaces the head of the pin/dowel in the bottom plate. The insert is pressed into the bottom plate. The raised boss of the solid plates (both top & bottom) appear to be bronze welded into the centre of the solid plate.

The raised boss of the solid plates fits inside the centre hole of the axle mounting bracket so making sure that there is no possibility of the axle moving on the spring. In the saloon version the raised boss of the rubber pad serves the same purpose

I would suggest that you persevere with removing the solid plates.

[stuffedpike20]

Thanks Phil.
Why do my simple jobs always end up complicated?
It is a good job that we have got such knowledgeable people to ask.

[philthehill]

Here is a photo of the (L to R) solid spring plates (top and bottom), the pin/dowel, the distance piece, the nut & the half nut for locking.

Spring plate 1.JPG (2.42 MiB) Viewed 1099 times

The head of the pin/dowel fits into the central hole of the upper solid spring plate.

The raised central boss of the solid spring plate fits into the axle mounting bracket hole.

The distance piece is pressed into the solid plate central hole and centralises the pin/dowel in the lower solid plate.

The distance piece is quite a tight fit in the lower solid spring plate and does require a press to remove/fit.

Below is the distance piece fitted in the lower solid spring plate.

spring plate 2.JPG (2.21 MiB) Viewed 1077 times

[stuffedpike20]

Very comprehensive, thanks Phil. And I have just realised that the first diagram that you posted of the chassis and suspension is the same one that I have been looking at. Sorry about that.
I managed to get the metal pads off this morning (they were, of course, not bolted as I had originally thought) and my new springs are now on, positively located and done up tight. Just a shame I can't go anywhere!
Thanks everyone for the advice. If you had not told me about the metal pads, I would probably have thrown them away with the old springs, and would be scratching my head and wondering why the new springs do not fit.
Thanks again,
John

[philthehill]

Well done.

Stay safe and well.

Phil