Morris Minor Owners Club

Hello

My 1970 1098cc morris minor has developed a strange ticking noise (not a knocking sound).

It has done it for a good year now and I cant seem to figure out what is causing it ( I have only done about 500 miles in the past year).

The symptom is the car starts no problem from cold drives perfectly. The noise is only heard when the car reaches full temperature after about 5 miles or so and the ticking starts. It only does it when between 15 and 35 mph then it stops. I have tried driving at 30 mph when its at its worst and pushing in the clutch and with the clutch disengaged if I rev the engine when I am still traveling it still makes the noise so it is not the gearbox. When not moving if I rev the engine from under the bonnet I can hear it fairly faintly. No trace of the noise at idle.

I would not call the ticking noise loud just noticeable and it also does not sound like metal to metal. More of a rubbing/ ticking. It almost sounds like a radiator that is very hot and you pour cold water on it and it ticks as the metal cools that the best description of it. But even then its more a smooth ticking noise.

Note: The engine was been fully rebuild 9500 miles ago but the engine has not done more than 50000 miles since it was new. ( only rebuild as the car was left sitting for about 30 years.) This probably rules out big end or similar but it does not sound as fierce a noise as that anyway.

I recently had to replace spark plugs as it was threatening to cut out at idle and this seems to have solved this all plugs fairly black but that is because I have been doing very short runs over the winter period. All fairly even colours.

Here is what I have checked and found out:
1. I don't have a oil pressure gauge but I have had no oil related warning lights. Replace oil 200 miles ago. Still clean, oil level not changed and oil looks and feels as new ( no smell of petrol). Under rocker cover getting plenty of oil so oil does not seem to be the issue.

2. Rocker cover gasket replaced last week, did not check gaps but they all seem fine and using a mechanics stethoscope it does not sound like the rocker cover area anyway. I cant pinpoint it.

3. The water pump has very slight play at the pully ( is this normal) and sounds ok with the stethoscope although it is old. I think it is an original and if so can I oil it. I see a small hole on the body of it, could this be a oiling hole?

4. Had new alternator 9500 miles ago and it seems ok.

5. Small grumble from distributor shaft but I think this is normal through the stethoscope. Distributor shaft has slight play but oiled and fitted new rotor arm and points seem fine. So this seems ok.

6. The only other odd thing I have noticed is that when the engine is started sometimes the starter motor light stays on as if it is still engaged but if you rev the engine slightly it goes out. It is a very old pifco starter motor (likely original) so not sure if it could somehow be very slightly catching the fly wheel when disengaged but I seems unlikely and noise is more the front of the engine.

7. Could be the original timing chain noise in which case it would not be anything to be concerned about.

8. Could the oil pump make a noise like this. I have not checked it as my oil pressure was good.

9. It has the alternative to the SU fuel pump fitted. Could this be a possibility to.

So this is all the info I can give.
Any thoughts and advice would be appreciated.

Thanks
Donald

Thanks for a very comprehensive description. Can you provide your approximate location as it might be easier for someone else to simply listen to the sound.

What I will do is when I give the car a drive in the next few days I will film the sound and put it on youtube and put a link here to it so you can hear it.

I have a video of the engine running 3 days ago.

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vberCbkVYt0

Runs perfectly at idle as seen it the video.

Do you think 97 octane fuel would be better than 95. Would it give the engine a clean out as it has a fair carbon build up I think.

Have you tried rolling the car down a suitable hill with the engine switched off and see if your noise appears.
If not then its related to the engine, if so then is a transmission noise.

The hole you refer to on the water pump is an overflow to allow water to escape rather than reach the bearings.

Have you checked the fuel pump?

Remove the fanbelt and go for a short run. This will eliminate the alternator and the water pump - or not, depending if the noise goes or is still present.

Thankyou for your replies these are much appreciated.

Murrayminor: I will check the fuel pump when I run the car at the beginning of next week. I did not check this but will check to be sure.

Thanks for explaining what the whole on the water pump is. That's good to know.

Myoldjalopy: I will remove the fan belt when I run the car at the beginning of next week and feel the water pump and see if the noise goes away or not.

Thankyou all very much for your advice. It helps a lot when there is other people to come up with ideas.

Will update you all early next week.

Thanks again
Donald Ross

go round all the manifold bolts and give them a nip up,a slight leak can cause that sort of ticking

Hello again

I took the car shopping to day and got it up to temperature.

The noise did appear although fairly faint. I refueled with 97 octane super unleaded. This made a massive improvement to the engine. Running even smoother than before now.

I did have a look at the fuel pump and it seems ok but I did not have the time to check anything else today.

Here is a link to a video I have made showing the noise. It is fairly hard to hear over the engine but if you listen closely it is a sort of smooth tick almost like something rubbing. Could it be as simple as because the fan belt has heated up causing the rubber to expand and make this rubbing noise?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtjS8xb4uMI

The noise does not bother me so if I cant sort it or if it is a fairly normal noise and is not going to be a problem I will just leave it be.

See what you think.

Thanks

I have just noticed the vacuum advance pipe has come off. Now fixed. This did not have anything to do with the noise.

Not the easiest thing to hear - was it windy out?

Are you sure the car ran better with the high octane fuel and it wasn't a placebo? It shouldn't make a difference unless you've got a very high compression ratio and timing/pre-ignition issues.

I'd echo the earlier suggestion regarding the exhaust manifold studs/nuts, you could also check your tappet clearances (these will tighten up as the engine warms), check the cooling fan bolts (hope you have a slim 7/16 ring spanner), and scour the engine bay for anything that might be rattling at a specific frequency.

Nice looking motor.

Thanks

I have checked the manifold and bolts. All fine - no exhaust leaks.

As for the tappets. I had the rocker cover off last week to replace the gasket and they all seemed fine but if I check everything else and cant solve it I will check the tappets again just incase.

I have not checked the fan bolts so I will check them tomorrow.

Thanks for the advice

Donald

Check the crankshaft pulley - if it is the rivetted type then it might be starting to fall apart.

I have checked the following:

Crankshaft pully (riveted but in good condition).
Fuel pump
Water pump
Fan bolts
alternator

Apart from very slight play in the water pump pully everything is fine.

I did however notice the timing advance pipe had come off. I must have caught it when I had the rocker cover off last week.
I did notice that the rubber attachment on the hose at the dizzy end was split and look like it has been for a long time.
I had a spare and fitted it and the engine runs noticeably smoother now. No sign of noise eather (although engine was not heated up so don't know this for certain) but I think this may have been the problem. The vacuum must have been sucking air in the split rubber fitting and possibly causing this noise. I will run up to temperature sometime soon to be sure.

Have any of you experienced this hose making a noise like thing when its not connected to the distributor correctly?

Thanks
Donald

Hello again

After using the car in warmer temperatures the noise is still there. I have also recently replaced the exhaust bracket with a good quality cast iron type and there are no leeks so that rules this out.

I now suspect it is the ageing water pump which is causing the noise. It would make sense as the shaft bearings may be worn and there is a small amount of play in the shaft.

For now I will monitor it and as long as it does not get any worse I will leave it as is.

Thanks
Donald

I had a similar noise that only started after a while, it turned out to be the speedo cable making a noise.

Phil

The speedo cable is something I never thought about. That is very possible.

When you had a similar noise did it appear when engine was revved to a mid range then fade when higher or lower than mid range revs?

It does sound like a shaft or possibly a cable almost rubbing on something at certain revs. It is not a metal to metal sound almost just a rubbing sound.

May look into this

Thanks
Donald

Hello.

I have discovered what the strange ticking noise was.
Using a mechanics stethoscope I have discovered it is in the starter motor area the noise is coming from when it engages to the flywheel. It is a very old pifco starter motor.

Does any one know why the starter engagement would be making this noise once the car heats up?

The starter operated very well and I have never had a problem starting the car so cant understand why it is making this strange noise. It sounds like something rubbing.

Any suggestions?

Thanks
Donald

Hello Again

I now realise that if it was the starter motor getting stuck on it would be a much worse noise.

So now my attention turns to the last know possibility. A badly adjusted clutch.

I must admit in the past 1000 miles I have not re adjusted the clutch so I now suspect this to be the issue.

Is this a common issue?

Thanks