Morris Minor Owners Club

Right!

Some questions about my new car.......

The chassis number is MA2S5 1041XXX which I worked out from Ray Newell's book as being around mid/late September 1963. If this is the case then the car should have the earlier flashing brakelights I think.

It currently has the L488 sidelights:

but late rear clusters:


So, I'm guessing it's been converted from flashing brake lights to later indicators (hence the later rear clusters).

The only issue is, the wipers are the later tandem type and not the clap-hands type. I thought the wipers and the light units changed over at the same time, but perhaps with it being so close to the changeover date then perhaps they car is a bit of a hybrid!

Ideas folks?

Also, what are the general opinions about having flashing brake lights nowadays? Do people notice them or do they have to have a large orange flashing light??

And......... the date of first registration is april 1964, so according to the chassis number it would have sat around for 6 or 7 months prior to being used. Is this sort of figure correct for 1963/64?

Sounds like a parts-bin special, which was quite common around the changeover. I like the idea of flashing brakelights, although it's a bit of a worry, I suppose. The dual-filament front lights look brilliant though. I didn't know you'd bought another mog, Cam...

I wouldn't want to say the change-over would have been perfectly timed.
The wipers required a change to the shell therefore would have been introduced when the new shell came on line - the other bits are fairly much just bolt on stuff so could have been run until stocks ran out.

hi cam
on my 62 moggy i have the flashing brake lights all i can say is i like them but the new drivers about to day dont as meany on time on the big carpark (m25) i had a near miss .im going to change them to the newer type for saftey
moggyminor16

1962 2 door saloon
1966 traveller (bling mobile)
1967 convertible needing a lot of loving

www.geocities.com/moggyminor16/moggyminors_moggys.html

I am going to place my indicators under the bumper, and say goodbye to ye orange blobs

Thanks folks!

Cam,

It does appear to be a bit of a conundrum. My reading of "A Collectors Guide" by Guy Saddlestone says that the 1098 minor was introduced in September 1962. The 1964 models, which were announced in October 1963, had a number of upgrades that included both the parallel wiper arms and the newer front and rear lamps. So, theoretically your new car should have both of these upgrades. The parallel wipers should argue that it is a '1964' model which means that you should therefore expect both the front and rear indicator clusters to be the latest type. However just as some of the 1098 upgrades appeared in some of the last 1962 948 cars, it could well also be true that some of the'1964' upgrades appeared in the late '1963' models, i.e. upgraded wipers with the old sidelight and flasher systems. I have not heard that any cars were built with L488 front sidelights and new rear light clusters. Had your car been built with the new clusters back and front, it would have made no sense (other than perhaps for some kind of aesthetic reason) to replace the front lights with the older L488 lights. So it would appear that the car may well have been built with the old lighting system and has had the rear clusters changed to the latest type.

So... any amendments would depend on the stance you take regarding the original equipment, which may well be affected by how much you want to spend. By far the simplest and cheapest amendment would be to assume that newer clusters were fitted all round and replace the front clusters with the newer type. Refitting the old type rear clusters would necessitate a new Lucas flasher relay box (about £75) and two new rear clusters (about £40 each) with additional costs to add any supplementary orange flashers to the rear of the car. This would amount to something in excess of £200.

With respect to running the car with only the original flashing brake lights opinions are divided. Some would say that American cars had them for years and that they work(ed) well. Some would also argue that other motorists should not necessarily expect to see orange flashers and should look at the rear of the car. My experience was, rightly or wrongly, that other motorists did not appear to see them when I indicated to change lanes on motorways or when I slowed to turn right on a busy single lane road. I decided that it was pointless taking the high moral ground that they should have seen me after they had dented me, so I fitted additional orange flashers below my rear bumper, which flashed in time with my rear brake lights. Since I have made the change the angry headlamp flashes when I made the aforementioned manoeuvres decreased to a similar level to that given (earned ) when I drive my modern car.

Robin

ello cam ,u cant help yourself can u? any pics of new moggy?

I wish the small matter of flashing or non- flashing brakelights/ indicators was the only problem on my two cars!!

(see signature ;) )

woo wrote:Cam,

The parallel wipers should argue that it is a '1964' model which means that you should therefore expect both the front and rear indicator clusters to be the latest type.

I'd agree with that, but the chassis number places the car JUST before the swap over.

So... any amendments would depend on the stance you take regarding the original equipment, which may well be affected by how much you want to spend. By far the simplest and cheapest amendment would be to assume that newer clusters were fitted all round and replace the front clusters with the newer type. Refitting the old type rear clusters would necessitate a new Lucas flasher relay box (about £75) and two new rear clusters (about £40 each) with additional costs to add any supplementary orange flashers to the rear of the car. This would amount to something in excess of £200.

Well, the car is going to be a slightly scruffy 'run-about' (certainly at the beginning anyway!) so, the parts will not cost be anywhere near that! I can make up a flashing relay box out of separate relays so it will cost me practially nothing (I have some early 1000 rear lights I think - somewhere.....).

Thanks for the advice. I'll bear it in mind!

It will stay as it is until it's MoT'd and then I can decide and play about with the electrics after that......

SR wrote:ello cam ,u cant help yourself can u? any pics of new moggy?

No, mate I can't help myself!! It's an addiction....... I have some pictures of the car, I'll post 'em on here shortly.......

chickenjohn wrote:I wish the small matter of flashing or non- flashing brakelights/ indicators was the only problem on my two cars!!

(see signature )

Yeah, me too actually..... I'm currently 200 miles away from my cars, so the only thing I can do at the moment is to find out info and think about things!!

The new car needs other work, my MG needs finishing off and my '52 and Traveller need a full restoration each!!!

Trouble is though that I'm a bit impatient and although long-term projects are fine, I can't wait 2 years or so to drive the car!!!

Here are some piccies:
http://potteries.mmoc.org.uk/Members_Ca ... 26B_02.jpg
http://potteries.mmoc.org.uk/Members_Ca ... 26B_03.jpg
http://potteries.mmoc.org.uk/Members_Ca ... 26B_24.jpg
http://potteries.mmoc.org.uk/Members_Ca ... 26B_27.jpg
http://potteries.mmoc.org.uk/Members_Ca ... 26B_29.jpg
http://potteries.mmoc.org.uk/Members_Ca ... 26B_30.jpg
http://potteries.mmoc.org.uk/Members_Ca ... 26B_32.jpg
http://potteries.mmoc.org.uk/Members_Ca ... 26B_33.jpg
http://potteries.mmoc.org.uk/Members_Ca ... 26B_37.jpg

Cam wrote,

I'd agree with that, but the chassis number places the car JUST before the swap over.

which could lead to the view that it could be a pre swap over 'mix and match'. The wiring colours should be your best bet to solving the original lighting.

Yes, I think it's definately a mix and match car!

That's a good idea about the wiring colours. I'll have to have a look and see.

Thanks for that!

Cam,

I can't recall the situation with Minors, but the original Ford Cortina (mk1 approx 1962)) had white front and amber rear flashing indicators. The Mk1a (about 1964 - "C" Reg) had amber front/rear.

I think it was one of those periods where there were a number of odd changes to the proposed lighting regs., some of which didn't last too long.

As you've hinted, it's probably one of the change overs...

(ok, I've mentioned the "B" word before, now I've used the "C" word!)

Colin

Thanks Colin. It seems that things were a bit 'undecided' then in the early 60s. As long as the MoT man is aware of this, then things should be OK.

The MoT station which I use has a late 20s lad doing the MoTs, but his dad works there and has been doing tests and working since 16 in the trade. He was trained by his dad who used to MoT my grandad's cars years ago! So, they know their way round and old car! Trouble is, that they are having to close soon due to property rent issues and the dad having heart trouble........ such a pity as I doubt I'll find such a friendly place again.........

I think I must be "lucky"?

Our local MOT centre is run by a guy who has a couple of minors (probably rusting away) in his garden. I keep trying to get him to either sell them on, or restore them, but no luck so far.

He's not lenient - pointing out that the car had "just perceptible" play in the L/H lower swivel (warning not failure but it did get sorted real soon!) - but he does understand the car.

It's just a bit far for you... (but possibly not Nikki)


Colin

Cam,

Have you been able to reach a conclusion about what the original system was?

I'm intrigued

Thanks for the interest, Robin!

Yes, I have had a poke around the car last weekend (did not have much time for a look when I collected it the weekend before!) and it seems that at some point in it's life it has been owned by a wiring maniac!!!

It is the pre '63 system with the flashing sidelights. It has the 8-way relay unit & flasher can. The front sidelight units incorporate the twin filament bulb (side lights and white flasher). All the wiring for this is intact and works! The only difference is that the rear wiring has been chopped and replaced by later wiring for the later large orange indicator units.

I will probably leave it like this until the MOT. After that, I may convert it back to the original rear light clusters (I have some that came off my '52 sidevalve when I had it!! - yes I know it's wrong!!!! ).

All the other electrical systems seem to work except the heater, but I have a few of those spare to play about with.

I notice your car is a '62 model 948. What is your chassis number? Mine is MA2S5 1041XXX and I make the manufacturing date around 18th or 19th September 1963.

Do you have an idea when yours was manufactured and also first registered? The reason I ask is that mine was first registered around the beginning of April '64 which is 6 months or so after production! I was wondering if this was correct for that period of time. Thanks!

Cam,

My Chassis number is M/A2S3D/1980572. It was first registered 24/7/1962. I don't know the date it was made. Is there a way of finding out?

Robin

Robin,

Your chassis number tells me that your car is a series 3, deluxe specification, 2 door saloon, but the next part can't be 1980572 as the last one is 1294082! I would say it was 980572 which places it in 1962.

I can work it out when I get home to get an approximate date for manufacture, but if you want the exact date then you'll have to apply for a heritage certificate.

http://www.heritage-motor-centre.co.uk/ ... efault.htm