Ball Joint - washer?

[The_Shopkeeper]

Dear all.
I'm most perplexed by this apparent simple problem.
I removed the old ball joint as it was knackered and bought a pair of new ones.
On replacing I'm stuck on what washers go where as the new ones only came with a locking nut.

Does anything go between the ball joint, the steering arm and then between the locking nut and the base of the steering arm?
I have a damaged flanged washer that was part of the original ball joint assembly.
Am i thinking too hard about this?
Should I get a new top washer?

A picture paints a thousand words....

IMG_4184.JPG (123.79 KiB) Viewed 2349 times

IMG_4186.JPG (135.75 KiB) Viewed 2349 times

IMG_4181.JPG (113.49 KiB) Viewed 2349 times

[pgp001]

On my new ball joints fitted only a few months ago the rubber boots are perished and splitting already.
You can get better quality MMC branded rubber boots from ESM, I have just got some to replace mine.

I would say the cupped washer should fit on top of the steering arm with the flange facing upwards, this should help the small end of the boot turn against the arm when applying steering lock.

Phil

[The_Shopkeeper]

Thanks for the reply pgp001.
I've tried to finish by tightening up the nut with the washer placement as suggested, but the stud just spins in the socket!
Do I have to hammer the stud into the steering arm?
Seems rather brutal.

[pgp001]

I have just had a look at the parts list, and I cannot see that dished washer on the assembly. I am wondering if someone has added this previously, or if it is an internal part from an old track rod end that has somehow escaped.
I am pretty sure mine does not have those fitted, and you don't get one with a new track rod end kit either.

So I would leave it out as it seems to be preventing the taper fully entering the steering arm and locking, dont start hammering anything.

Phil

[philthehill]

The flanged washer should not be there and should be discarded.
Even the washer under the nut is no longer required especially if a self locking nut is used.
The gaiter grips the taper of the track rod end and nothing more is required other than the top and bottom spring clips are in place around the gaiter.
Not only does the gaiter grip the taper but it is also pushing down on the top face of the steering arm so keeping crud and water away from the ball joint upon assembly.
Make sure that the ball joint taper and the tapered hole in the steering arm are both grease free so as to help grip the taper of the ball joint.
When greasing make sure that some grease is expelled from the ball joint so that you can be sure that the ball joint is fully greased.

[les]

I have seen that dished washer before, in a ball joint application, although I can’t pinpoint its position, it may even have been located within the rubber gaiter, possibly to help keep its shape. Something that may have subsequently, been omitted.

[RobThomas]

If you wrench the track rod end body over sideways with a big spanner then it helps to stop the taper spinning as it gets tightened.

[philthehill]

If the flanged washer is not able to be fitted over any part of the taper it certainly will not go inside the gaiter.

[taupe]

Hi

I got confused by those washers on my MG years ago...Im pretty sure that the washer with a step held the ball seal in place (and supported it within the ball joint) and was then peened in.

What happens is as the ball joint wears and starts to get very loose it pops the inner seal and this washer then comes out when you dismantle the joint. The other plain washer goes under the nut...or if the hole is too large for that it may be another seal support washer....

here is one on google images

balljoint.jpg (84.05 KiB) Viewed 2236 times

taupe

[alanworland]

My (original) track rod end joints don't have boots like we have come to accept.
I have 2 or 3 spherical shaped cups that make up where the normal rubber boot goes, the joint also has a grease nipple through which grease can be expelled between the shaped cups.
Must work ok as they have done over 130k!
They give the impression they could be taken apart?

Alan

[philthehill]

Some track rod ends joints with the concave cups had the ball and seats held in the joint with a circlip so that you could take it apart, clean and replace the innards if necessary and reassemble with new grease.
Now everything is throw away

[Edward1949]

Thanks for the reply pgp001.
I've tried to finish by tightening up the nut with the washer placement as suggested, but the stud just spins in the socket!
Do I have to hammer the stud into the steering arm?
Seems rather brutal.

This can be a problem, especially with a new self-locking nut. Try fitting new ball joint with an old non-self locking nut in order to avoid turning force spinning the taper. Once it’s secure replace the old nut with the new self-locking nut.
,

[philthehill]

Just a reminder that self locking nuts (all types) should only be used once especially nylock nuts.