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How to find out if factory convert

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:56 am
by dubman1959
Hi there,
Can someone please tell me what would be written on an ID tag under the bonnet of a 1950 convertible,.Just so i know its a factory vert or a 2 door been converted. Thanks Steve.

Re: How to find out if factory convert

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:54 pm
by geoberni
I'm not sure that there was anything for MM cars. See this page http://potteries.mmoc.org.uk/Identify.htm

If you really want to know perhaps you could try getting the factory build records or heritage certificate ?
https://britishmotormuseum.co.uk/archiv ... rtificates

Re: How to find out if factory convert

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:53 pm
by Shropshiremoggie
Would the government registration site help ? I assume ( dangerous ) that it would be recorded due to a major change .

Re: How to find out if factory convert

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:31 pm
by liammonty
There are I believe several ways to identify an original convertible from a saloon that’s been converted - these are to do with how it was manufactured rather than chassis or body numbers. I’m no expert on this, but there are a few who are. These are features other than numbers on the ‘ID tag’ - I’m guessing you’re referring to the chassis plate or body number? You shouldn’t need to pay for a heritage certificate! In any case, that’s only going to tell you the identity of the chassis number attached to the car!

Re: How to find out if factory convert

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:35 pm
by RobThomas
Look inside the boot where the old roof would have been welded beneath where the wood now lies. Is it flat with screw holes in or does it look like loads of spot welds have been drilled out?

Re: How to find out if factory convert

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:53 pm
by firedrake1942
Is the same not true of the strengthening pieces by the A and B posts. spot welds if genuine and continuous if converted ?

Re: How to find out if factory convert

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:59 am
by dubman1959
Thank you all very much for your input, Really good of you all, Cheers Steve

Re: How to find out if factory convert

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:24 pm
by Budgie
Look for spot welds as opposed to tag, running welds under the dash by the" A" post. If spot welds are present then it's a genuine tourer as this is the strenghting parts of the tourer running from under the dash to the "A" post. Also another easy one is to see if there are any interior light switches on the "A" post. If so then it's not a genuine tourer as for obvious reasons, there are no interior lights on a convertible.

Re: How to find out if factory convert

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:34 am
by irmscher
I have an original convertible all the right numbers and heritage certificate and mine has a light switch .I did a lot of searching and apparently they used whatever shell they could get there hands on when demand was there.

Re: How to find out if factory convert

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:40 am
by ManyMinors
Convertibles were always built using convertible body shells. Convertible body shells used the same door pillar as a saloon, therefore once the switch became a standard fitting (around 1959) every shell had the hole for mounting the switch. Saloons were fitted with the switch and convertibles received a rubber grommet. Many convertible owners later removed the grommet, screwed a switch in and fitted an interior light (usually under the dashboard) for convenience :) .
Morris never made convertibles out of saloons. For a start it would be impossible to install the extra strengthening which is INSIDE the sill box section. IF it was possible they would have to do all that extra work and then sell the car for the same price as a saloon as BOTH had the same retail price. It would make no sense would it......

Re: How to find out if factory convert

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:20 am
by firedrake1942
true dat!!!!

Re: How to find out if factory convert

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:53 pm
by SteveClem
That's what I've always thought, but would be interested to hear more from Lee about his car.

Re: How to find out if factory convert

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:20 pm
by Budgie
irmscher wrote:I have an original convertible all the right numbers and heritage certificate and mine has a light switch .I did a lot of searching and apparently they used whatever shell they could get there hands on when demand was there.

Well you learn something every day for sure !

Re: How to find out if factory convert

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:27 pm
by liammonty
Budgie wrote:
irmscher wrote:I have an original convertible all the right numbers and heritage certificate and mine has a light switch .I did a lot of searching and apparently they used whatever shell they could get there hands on when demand was there.

Well you learn something every day for sure !
Except according to the reply it’s not correct :wink:

Re: How to find out if factory convert

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:56 pm
by irmscher
The heritage certificate matches up to all the numbers or I would not of bought it and its definitely not a converted saloon

Re: How to find out if factory convert

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:01 am
by liammonty
No - that's not what I meant! Nobody has suggested your car isn't a genuine convertible!

ManyMinors said that from around 1959, the hole was present for the mounting of the switch, but had a grommet in it in the case of convertibles BUT that all convertibles were built as convertibles, not from whatever shell was around. So then a lot of owners were able to fit a light switch if they wanted to. The point was that after that date, they all had the hole in the door pillar, as the convertible shells used the same door pillar as the saloons...

Wasn't there a loooooonnnnnnnngggggggg thread on this a few years ago?!

Re: How to find out if factory convert

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:17 am
by ManyMinors
Exactly. And to demonstrate: Here is a photo taken of a genuine 1960s convertible still exactly to the original specification, showing the rubber grommet plugging the hole where the light switch would be on a saloon.
I have heard (many times) the misleading tale that you can tell an original convertible by the absence of this hole but that is incorrect.
Funnily enough, I have been told several times that my own convertible - which IS a later conversion - is an original convertible because it doesn't have these holes. The reason being that it was built in 1958, prior to the switches being installed.

Re: How to find out if factory convert

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:29 pm
by Mark Wilson
liammonty wrote:
Wasn't there a loooooonnnnnnnngggggggg thread on this a few years ago?!
Noooooooooooo - don't even think about resurrecting the LBM debate..... :roll: :roll:

Re: How to find out if factory convert

Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:13 am
by POMMReg
Mark Wilson wrote:
liammonty wrote:
Wasn't there a loooooonnnnnnnngggggggg thread on this a few years ago?!
Noooooooooooo - don't even think about resurrecting the LBM debate..... :roll: :roll:
Zzzzzzzzzz....

Re: How to find out if factory convert

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:13 am
by IaininTenbury
Feeling under the rear parcel shelf area for spot weld bumps v screw holes is the only sure fire way of telling a genuine convertible as Rob T said. It's relatively easy to weld in the stiffening pieces to look like original ones or even make b post brackets that look like originals (ones in the kits don't).....