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Clutch replacement
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:11 am
by dubman1959
Hi There,
Going to replace clutch kit on my Morry early next year, I have access to a hoist . Is the easiest way to just drop the box out ? Its a 52 minor with 1100 gearbox and 950 motor. Cheers Steve.
Re: Clutch replacement
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:10 pm
by philthehill
I always found that the easiest way to remove the gearbox is to drop the box out from underneath using the hoist (or jack) to support the engine.
Removing the gearbox from underneath is made easier if you can get the car up on car ramps at the front and axle stands at the rear under the axle. I do not trust axle stands at the front for this particular job as you end up pulling a pushing and you do not want the car coming off the axle stands on top of you.
Re: Clutch replacement
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:44 pm
by les
I would have thought engine out would be better. In fact you only need to disconnect and raise it up, then you can swivel it through 90'degrees to get at the clutch, while it hangs there.
Re: Clutch replacement
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:43 pm
by simmitc
Clutch replacement is easiest with engine out, leave the gearbox in place. Contrary to what some instructions quote, there is no need to drain any oil.
Re: Clutch replacement
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:40 pm
by liammonty
Having done it both ways, definitely easier to remove the engine, as per Les and simmitc’s comments.
Re: Clutch replacement
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:20 pm
by smithskids
Engine out is definitely the easiest, and if the gear box has to come out as well you only have to take the floor up and undo the propshaft and mounts etc. then lift it out by hand. I am 80 next year and can still manage it out in a day with out too much trouble.
Re: Clutch replacement
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:36 pm
by dubman1959
philthehill wrote:I always found that the easiest way to remove the gearbox is to drop the box out from underneath using the hoist (or jack) to support the engine.
Removing the gearbox from underneath is made easier if you can get the car up on car ramps at the front and axle stands at the rear under the axle. I do not trust axle stands at the front for this particular job as you end up pulling a pushing and you do not want the car coming off the axle stands on top of you.
Cheers for that Phil. Thats what we thought . Just take the g/box out. We have a propper 4 post hoist to use in a mechanics workshop . Everyone else saying take motor out ,
Re: Clutch replacement
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:37 pm
by dubman1959
simmitc wrote:Clutch replacement is easiest with engine out, leave the gearbox in place. Contrary to what some instructions quote, there is no need to drain any oil.
Cheers Simmitc .
Re: Clutch replacement
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:52 pm
by dubman1959
les wrote:I would have thought engine out would be better. In fact you only need to disconnect and raise it up, then you can swivel it through 90'degrees to get at the clutch, while it hangs there.
thanks for that
Re: Clutch replacement
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:54 pm
by dubman1959
smithskids wrote:Engine out is definitely the easiest, and if the gear box has to come out as well you only have to take the floor up and undo the propshaft and mounts etc. then lift it out by hand. I am 80 next year and can still manage it out in a day with out too much trouble.
Hi Smithskids. Wow nearly 80 and still messing with Morrys . You must really love them,. Thanks for you advise.
Re: Clutch replacement
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:30 pm
by philthehill
Even easier if you have a 4 post hoist.
Some things to take into account when removing the gearbox.
Disconnect the battery.
Be careful of the heater valve when lowering the engine.
Mark the diff & propshaft flanges before disconnecting the prop so that it all goes back together the same & keeps the balance.
Slacken & disconnect the exhaust clamp.
Slacken engine mounting nuts
Remove top hose from radiator.
Slacken off engine steady bar but not head bolt.
Drain the gearbox oil otherwise it will be all over you when you drop the rear end of the gearbox.
Remove gear lever.
Remove top bolts from gearbox bell housing before dropping the engine as when dropped the bolts can not always be removed.
When you pull the gearbox rearwards and downwards twist the gearbox to the right to clear the rack.
When reassembling - coat the cross member bolts/screws in Copper Ease.
Removal of the gearbox cross member from the gearbox does make life easier.
The floor does not have to be removed to gain access to the gearbox rear mounting bolts but you will need to lift a small section of carpet to gain access to the gearbox cross member top bolts/screws.
Section FF1 of the Minor wksp manual recommends the removal of the gearbox as the way to get to the clutch. Fig FF2 shows the gearbox part way out - to replace a Minor clutch when I worked in the BMC garage the gearbox was always removed using the vehicle hoist to gain underside access.
Phil
Re: Clutch replacement
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:24 am
by liammonty
I suspect in the days of BMC garages, the gearbox cross member nuts were less likely to be tight and end up spinning endlessly after the rusted metal that holds them captive breaks, necessitating removal of the gearbox tunnel to access them
. Each to their own - I guess there’s no right or wrong way, but I’ll stick to removing the engine.
Re: Clutch replacement
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:47 am
by dubman1959
philthehill wrote:Even easier if you have a 4 post hoist.
Some things to take into account when removing the gearbox.
Disconnect the battery.
Be careful of the heater valve when lowering the engine.
Mark the diff & propshaft flanges before disconnecting the prop so that it all goes back together the same & keeps the balance.
Slacken & disconnect the exhaust clamp.
Slacken engine mounting nuts
Remove top hose from radiator.
Slacken off engine steady bar but not head bolt.
Drain the gearbox oil otherwise it will be all over you when you drop the rear end of the gearbox.
Remove gear lever.
Remove top bolts from gearbox bell housing before dropping the engine as when dropped the bolts can not always be removed.
When you pull the gearbox rearwards and downwards twist the gearbox to the right to clear the rack.
When reassembling - coat the cross member bolts/screws in Copper Ease.
Removal of the gearbox cross member from the gearbox does make life easier.
The floor does not have to be removed to gain access to the gearbox rear mounting bolts but you will need to lift a small section of carpet to gain access to the gearbox cross member top bolts/screws.
Section FF1 of the Minor wksp manual recommends the removal of the gearbox as the way to get to the clutch. Fig FF2 shows the gearbox part way out - to replace a Minor clutch when I worked in the BMC garage the gearbox was always removed using the vehicle hoist to gain underside access. Thanks heaps for the info Phil.
Phil
Re: Clutch replacement
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:21 am
by philthehill
liammonty
I do not disagree with you about the cross member nuts and it may be that the OP upon finding a problem with the nuts decides to side step the issue for the moment and take out the engine instead.
Therefore I would suggest that the OP checks the ability to unscrew the cross member bolts/screws before doing anything else.
Saying that the nut problem cannot be ignored and now may be a good time to sort the nut problem out if there is a problem.
A good swill of Plus Gas release oil (not WD40) well before attempting to take the bolts/screws out will help considerably.
Before refitting the bolts/screws run the respective tap through the nut threads.
Phil
Re: Clutch replacement
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:11 am
by GavinL
I haven't changed my Minor clutch yet, but changed a number on my Midget in the past, and always found it was easiest with the engine and gearbox out as a unit ( in the midget it can be done with the gearbox left in situ). For the less experience i would imagine it is easier to change the clutch, spigot bush, get the clutch plate aligned and get the 'box input shaft and engine properly aligned when bolting together with them both out of the car.
Re: Clutch replacement
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:48 am
by philthehill
GavinL
That is the problem with the Midget/Sprite - you have no option but to take the engine or engine/gearbox out to gain access to the clutch as it is impossible to remove the gearbox whilst leaving the engine in place.
Phil
Re: Clutch replacement
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:48 am
by simmitc
Agreed that there is no wrong way to do this, only different ways; but consider that removing the gearbox is more prone to problems. Remember that you have to pull the box backwards just a little to clear the lugs and then rotate it to clear the steering rack. Failure to do that results in fracturing the top of the bell housing. Simple task when working with a lift, a transmission jack, a heated workshop and a couple of blokes. Much more difficult for average DIY at home.
Engine out means that you can work on the clutch itself without having to lie on your back under the car. When it comes to refitting, it's easier to get the input shaft aligned when moving the engine rather than lifting the gearbox. Also consider the number of screws that have to be removed from the gearbox cover!
If you can take engine and box together then that minimises any risk of damage and makes aligning much simpler.
Re: Clutch replacement
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:23 pm
by philthehill
Whether you remove the engine and gearbox together or remove the gearbox from below you do not have to remove the gearbox cover only the 4 upper screws for the gearbox cross member mount which are accessed from inside the car.
If the captive nuts in the chassis rail turn that is a completely different kettle of fish.
The four upper cross member screws can be easily have their heads drilled off to allow the cross member to be removed and they can be replaced if necessary when the cross member is removed completely.
Many Minor owners do not have access to an engine hoist and removing the gearbox from below is their only option.
Removing and refitting the gearbox from below is not the difficult and fraught with problems task that it is being made out to be. Take it slowly and carefully and the task will be completed without complications.
Been there, got the tea shirt and the video.
Phil
Re: Clutch replacement
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:36 am
by dubman1959
philthehill wrote:Whether you remove the engine and gearbox together or remove the gearbox from below you do not have to remove the gearbox cover only the 4 upper screws for the gearbox cross member mount which are accessed from inside the car.
If the captive nuts in the chassis rail turn that is a completely different kettle of fish.
The four upper cross member screws can be easily have their heads drilled off to allow the cross member to be removed and they can be replaced if necessary when the cross member is removed completely.
Many Minor owners do not have access to an engine hoist and removing the gearbox from below is their only option.
Removing and refitting the gearbox from below is not the difficult and fraught with problems task that it is being made out to be. Take it slowly and carefully and the task will be completed without complications.
Been there, got the tea shirt and the video.
Phil
Cheers Phil..
Re: Clutch replacement
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:37 am
by dubman1959
Thank you all for your advise . Very kool Regards Steve