Morris Minor Owners Club

I am thinking about upgrading my traveller to a K series. A friend of mine has pranged his MGF and has offered me an 1800VVC engine + anything else i want to unbolt for £1000 (as long as i get to it before the insurance company take it away). The questions realy are how straight forward is fitting a K series to a mog. The car presently has an ital back axtle, gearbox, peddle box, servo, breaks and engine. I'm assuming i can bolt the engine to a ford type 9 box (with a kit possibly) and would need to do something drastic with the suspension. I fancy a 165bhp minor. That would realy give the GTI boys a run for their money. The other question is how easy is it to change the rings in an ital engine (the one that i will be taking out is a bit smoky) and i would like to put it in my saloon.
I just want an idea of how much work is involved as i will have to get somebody to do any welding that is required. Just as well i have an understanding bank manager!

I doubt your friend should be selling anything off the car. If the insurance company have paid out, then the salvage belongs to them, and that includes the engine. They might be seriously unimpressed if there are bits missing, especially the valuable bits that increase the value of the salvage.

This might not be the case, but he should check carefully before you end up with problems

The other question is how easy is it to change the rings in an ital engine (the one that i will be taking out is a bit smoky) and i would like to put it in my saloon.

Same as pretty much every other A-series engine............ You need to whip the sump off, take the head off, undo the big-end caps and push the pistons and rods up out of the block. Then you need to make sure that your bores are OK and within tolerance. Also it's best to have the bores re-honed so that the new rings bed in properly. To do that it's best if you take the crank out (due to the flying fine filings). Take the rings off the pistons and check the condition of the pistons and check that they are still within tolerance (not gone oval or worn too much). Then slide the pistons back into the bores and put the new rings on top so you can gap them properly. Then remove the pistons again and fit the rings either using the proper tool or feeler gauges. Then compress the rings using a compressor, slide them into the bores (same as they came out of), locate the rod end to the crank, put the caps back on (same place as they came from), tighen the bolts, sump on, head on and you're done!

I think that's everything, but if I've missed anything then I'm sure others will point it out!

lol, as simple as that then. My friend has purchased his MGF back from the insurance company as salvage for £1000 (total loss) because he wants to take his interior out to put into the newer one he has just got (from ebay) The engine starts and sounds good (as it should on an 11k engine) The insurance company want to remove the shell for distruction as its badly twisted to the point that the windscreen surround isnt windscreen shaped anymore (MG-F @110mph + blow out + crash barrier = ouch).

Gosh your friend was lucky

Mind you as he was on a private road/race track (at 110) they would have pulled him out pretty quick

Paulk

I've got a feeling that the VVC engine differs from the K-series... It might have different mountings &c (IIRC it requires a fair bit of work to fit it into a 200/25 engine bay), and it's certainly more complex than the standard K-series...

Now I understand. It just seemed odd the insurance wanting to take it away.....

The VVC is more complex than the standard K but I think it's only really the head. I assume you were intending to use the engine management from the car too, as otherwise you'll need to work out some other way to control the cams (No, not the one giving the instructions on engine rebuilds, and his twin).

If you do decide to use the engine management, remember the immobiliser box, keys etc as it costs dear to get new bits and have them all aligned.

You would need to make contact with Kit car builders to find out about the K series conversion - it's very common there. It has been done before on an extremely fast Traveller. Personally - I think it will be a bit scarey !! Well beyond the handling/braking capabilities of even a reasonably modified Traveller. But I wonder really - you are asking about piston rings, which is a very easy simple job - yet the K series conversion is 100 times more complex !! Are you sure this is for you ??? Oh - and the description above - if going to that level of strip down you should take the crank out and check it for wear - and at least put new bearing shells in it ! You should never re-fit old shells, false economy !

I think I'll state the obvious - JLH Minors are the kings of the K series conversion http://www.jlhmorrisminors.co.uk/ . The boss uses this board too, user name jonathon.

The K series is as easy to fit as a standard minor engine. The complexity comes with the plumbing and engine management, the later being responsible for the high cost of the conversion. Everything you need to fit and get the engine running is available in kit form.
The VVC motor is the same as the standard 1.8 K series motor except for the VVc system.and larger valves. The problem with fitting the 1.8 is that the bellhousing will only accept the 1.4 flywheel, in doing this it renders your ECU useless, hence the need for an aftermarket unit. Another problem arrises from this in that no one produces an ECU to run the VVC system, therefore you need to convert the head back to the standard cams, at a cost of over £500. The benefit you gain in doing this and the management swap is a power increase of around 30bhp,plus more accurate control over ignition and fueling. If you opt for a flowed head and fast road cams you should achieve about 170bhp. This is delivered very smoothly with a fat torque curve, and a very drivable engine, capable of awsome acceleration and top speed, but also a mpg figure seldom under 40mpg.
I take issue with the post that the K series is scarey and beyond the capabilities of a modified minor. Our K powered minors have been rigourously tested by the motoring press and non have had a bad word to say. Retro Cars mag have raved over the performance of not only the motor but also our braking and handling packages, TV's Tiff Needell tested the car on the track and found the grip unbelievable, he found it very difficult to unsettle the car enough to do his usual drifting. Not all of our K series units are about speed alone, emphasis is given to the production od a well balanced package. The headlines are grabbed and rightly so by the high performance versions, one of which has been used extensively on this countries race tracks, by our test pilot John Pearson. John is a member of the high performance drivers club, who normally meet up with their Porche's, BMW M3's kit cars TVR's etc , but all these drivers make a B line for the moggy because its just great fun to drive. Even the instructors at Millbrook proving ground were impressed withit and insisted on lapping the bowl at 120mph no handed for three laps, with the car in complete control.
It's an unfortunate fact though that the Owners club have shown no interest at all in this development of the minor, Shame as it may have negated the need for this question. If any more info is required about the K power into a moggy please contact me, as we have a demo available over the next few weeks. Come and try it, it may dispell your opinions over its unsuitability

bmcecosse wrote:Oh - and the description above - if going to that level of strip down you should take the crank out and check it for wear - and at least put new bearing shells in it ! You should never re-fit old shells, false economy !

Yes, well you should do a lot of other things too. Like check the oil pump, timing gear, etc, etc. The question was about rings, so that was answered.

If I was going to that level then I would completely strip, check, re-machine (if needed) and rebuild the whole unit.

New b/e shells would be a MUST - the rods having been taken off the crank. Minor oil pumps fare much better than Mini ones - which have to chew through bits of chipped gears ! But yes - I would (and just have) fit a new pump if required. Fiddling with rings is rarely successful - sometimes squeeze another 10,000 miles out the engine.
And YES - Jonathan - obviously YOUR K conversions are excellent - and that Traveller is fantastic. ( I wish mine could be like that !) My concern was for a home-grown conversion - and how good/safe it all would be. The poster is uncertain about changing piston rings - so a K conversion is shall we say, 'ambitious' !! The point is - it's certainly not just a drop in / drive away job.

bmcecosse wrote:New b/e shells would be a MUST - the rods having been taken off the crank.

Well, the fact that the rods have been removed from the crank does not mean that you HAVE to replace them. It does not damage them by removing them from the rods! They will perform exactly the same as before you took them apart! But it's a REALLY good idea to replace them while you are to that level of the engine strip-down. Thrust washers too and any other 'consumables'.

I want a K series minor as I intend on using it for my daily driver. I used to use my 1098 mog as my daily car and it lasted for about 18 months before it needed serious work (This was 3 years ago and I have only just got round to having it done!) The A series engine doesn’t like my driving style (point and squirt) even with a 1275 my traveller feels very sluggish (I'm too pampered driving a 2l car every day). I've just PM'd Jonathan to see if he can tell me very roughly what the cost of fitting a k series to my mog is if I provide the engine.
What would be sensible to do with the 1275 out of the car? I want to do the rings as its burning a bit of oil. Without having to send the engine to be re-machined (unless it’s really bad) is there anything else I should do other than what has already been suggested?

You could try and sell the engine as a 'going concern' as there are not THAT many of them around now. You won't get much for it though, but it's probably a lot easier to just pass it on than spend money have it reconditioned just to make a little more.

Advertise it on here and/or eBay would be my advice.

I dont want to sell it, i have 2 mogs and i thought that as i wanted to put a big engine in my traveller that i could sort out its 1275 and stick it in the saloon as i have all the mountings and other parts i would need to fit it to come out of the traveller. It may be a daft idea as it seems like alot of work to get it running properly. Anybody living near me / harrow area fancy giving a crash course on engine rebuilds?

Well, it's not so much the crash course, but more a concern of how much you are willing to spend. If I was in your situation then I would get the 1275 rebuilt using new parts so that it's good for another 80-100k miles.

If the rings are worn that badly then the other bits are probably quite worn too, so really if you want a good reliable engine then rebuild it!

You can either get an engine builder to do it for you, or get the bits machined and buy the new parts and try it yourself! The only thing to watch out for is the new cam bearings. Very often machine shops don't ream them out so you try to fit the cam and it get wedged!! Not that I've ever done that!

It's good fun though and you get a lot of satisfaction from doing it yourself!

My concern was for a home-grown conversion - and how good/safe it all would be. The poster is uncertain about changing piston rings - so a K conversion is shall we say, 'ambitious' !!

Having met Terry I took his questions to be of the general enquiry type to get a feel of what things may cost and whether it was worth doing or not, he did not say he was going to do the conversion himself, and contacting Jonathon is the right way to go as I dont think there is another poster on here with the experience of fitting these types of engines.
Sorry if it sounds like a nag.....