Mot Centre damaged my car

[bluegrass]

Hi,

I took my 1966 convertible for an MOT today at my local MOT garage. When i collected it, they told me it had failed on steering gaitors (fair enough) , but that it also had a large hole in the front of the passenger side sill. I know the car very well, since i'm the only one who works on it. When i checked at home, i could see that they had jacked the car up on that part of the sill (fresh yellow paint marks from their lift) and had staved it in. When i called to ask what had happened, they denied all knowledge of it. What is the best thing for me to do?

Any help much appreciated.

[firedrake1942]

Take lots of photos and write a 'without prejudice' letter inviting them to make good the damage. They may rely on terms and conditions of business to which you de facto sign up when you use their services. That said, unless they have provided you with a copy of these or they are clearly displayed in the premises, the contract they rely on may not be good.

The problem will be if the damage was caused to an already corroded part of the car where they ought to have been able to rely on good strong metal. If the area they used is and always would be unsuitable for jacking on the Morris they are likely to be deemed negligent. You mention a 'hole'.

Ultimately they are likely to have some form of legal expenses insurance and unless you have that on your car insurance (the right to proceed is usually the insurers) , the playing field is rather less than level.

Small claims

https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content ... +FINAL.pdf

can be the way forward as can mediation pre trial, but you have to bear in mind that costs and time / stress in pursuing may outweigh any financial or material outcome you achieve and that is if you win and they comply with the SCC judgement - many do not and then you are into bailiffs.

You may also be able to report them to DVSA as they do not sound particularly competent.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... out-an-mot

if in doubt, seek legal advice either through your own solicitor or CAB. https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

[ampwhu]

me being 'old fashioned' I would send a couple of the boys around to have a 'chat'. the clientele that would turn up would be enough for the outcome to be a success.

only saying like......

[bluegrass]

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[bluegrass]

Many thanks for the replies.

I'll take the car to a restorer i know and see what he thinks. I have taken a couple of pictures, one as you can see i have posted here, but i'll take more tomorrow and check the rest of the car to make sure there is no further damage. I think the point is that most old cars are not as strong as they once were, but no one in their right mind should jack an old car up on its sills....... If one tried hard enough, or without engaging brain, many older cars could quite quickly be destroyed unnessessarily with enough brutal handling, and i don't expect to suffer damage whilst getting an MOT.

[austerdriver]

Look like to me it's corrosion that's caused the hole! & Most MOT inspectors mark defects with yellow chalk.

[firedrake1942]

Notwithstanding that corrosion is the obvious cause, a causative factor which exposed the case has clearly been the application of some outside force and the shape of that has the hallmarks of some form of ramp jacking apparatus. As OP said there is no way that a jack should be put there.

I think from my experience that any CC judge would observe that this corrosion would, in any case have had to be addressed notwithstanding the cause of its exposure.

[greendefender123]

Certainly weakened by corrosion. Id weld it up and forget about it if I were you. It would of needed welding soon anyway.

Steve

[bluegrass]

Look like to me it's corrosion that's caused the hole! & Most MOT inspectors mark defects with yellow chalk.

Its hard with this picture to get a clear understanding, but the 'chalk' is actually paint, the same colour as their lift. The panel is caved in, not from corrosion, but from impact. The point i am making is that i understand the panel has some surface corrosion underneath the chassis paint, but the panel was not holed before the MOT, nor impacted/staved in. As i said in an earlier post, most old cars will have some non perfect panels, but you should never expect this part of the sill to support the weight of the car, nor an MOT centre to apply huge amounts of force to all your panels, otherwise our cars could be in serious trouble......I doubt many cars could withstand such treatment, nor should they. I will of course have the area repaired, but never attend that particular garage again....... Anything old, whether it be a car, a musical instrument, a painting, an antique etc should be handled in a sensitive and realistic manner, otherwise we would end up with only very strong but not nessessarrily beautiful or interesting objects surviving over time, and i rather like them

[ManyMinors]

I can't imagine why any MOT tester would want to jack up a car in that position but whether they did or not, I would say the car is heavily corroded in that area and was already in need of repair - and somewhat covered with underseal. Whatever caused the bent metal didn't cause the corrosion and in all honesty, had the sill not been rusty, I doubt the metal would have bent.

It is annoying for you, but I would simply accept that whatever happened has exposed a previously covered-up weakness in your car which can now be repaired before it gets worse.

[les]

I have known cars jacked under the cill front, where the panel is 'end on' so to speak. Looks like the jack either slipped backwards off the front, or indeed jacked where the mark is. However the whole area is rusted and weak. Surprised they didn't mention that, maybe because they did indeed do it! You could I suppose ask why they omitted to mention it as an advisory.

[firedrake1942]

Apparently it failed on steering rack gaiters, I would have thought this level of corrosion more than an advisory, if they acknowledged it . If not it would seem to add weight to the OP contention that they jacked it up at that point.

[kennatt]

whilst agreeing that the mot should try to avoid damage, surly the object of it is to examine the vehicle and if possible give it a pass therefor letting the owner know that within reason the vehicle is in good order and safe to use.If in that examination damage is caused as a result of there being serious corrosion(As in this case) then I for one would be happy to know that there was urgent work to be done.I agree in this case that the centre has not failed on this corrosion,but it may be that is fell outside of the regs re distance from suspension etc,but still should have had an advisory. My view is that I would be reporting to vosa,not that they had damaged the car but that they had failed to either fail on corrosion or at least issued advisories. I once bought an mgb,which needed an mot, Checked it over and thought it looked ok,but on lifting up to free off the suspension from the ramp(I was present and saw that they had lifted from the chassis legs ,as they should have )one side crumpled,it had been bodged and covered with underseal. Didn't go running to small claims court,just fitted a new leg.

[RobThomas]

Not quite what you'd want to hear but I think they may have actually done you a favour. That looks like a nasty bit of corrosion going on in there and in finding it now you may have a chance to save further corrosion spreading.
However, if they didn't 'find' that pre-existing (ahem) hole then they failed to carry out an adequate inspection. If you wanted to get shirty with them you might be able to get them to weld it for free if you suggested that you felt compelled to take it to make a formal complaint to the DVSC.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... out-an-mot

canoworms_1368217657_600x275.jpg (65.36 KiB) Viewed 5269 times

[les]

All well and good but you can bet they would just cover the cill, whereas the areas behind will also need attention, and I can't see the garage working their way back until there is no rusty metal left!

[bluegrass]

I think we have two main points here that are in my view rather separate from one another.

1) They jacked the car up in the wrong place.. If they hadn’t, I would not have a holed and buckled panel.

2) There is obviously some corrosion to the panel that is now visible once they damaged it.

One does not make the other ok, they are separate issues.

If someone hit me in the face and broke my nose, I would not be thanking them for exposing the inherent weakness in my face, but would rather question why they are going around hitting people in the face to start with. You shouldn’t hit people in the face, and you shouldn’t jack up a Morris Minor on the sill.

In terms of what to do; I just won't pay for the MOT, and will take it as a lesson learned. It just means i won't go to that garage again, and I will tell people i know to do the same.

[les]

Agreed it shouldn't be jacked up in the wrong place, look on it as an opportunity to replace the cill, you will need to anyway for the retest. Being a convertible you need as much strength as possible in these areas. Check the other side as well.

[firedrake1942]

for the life of me I cannot work out where on the underside this is. Clearly at a corner but it is stumping me.

[les]

Front of the cill just behind the front wheel, well that's what I'm thinking!

[firedrake1942]

That was my first impression but the bit to the left almost looks like the bottom of the B post.