Morris Minor Owners Club

I'm currently looking for my first Minor and have come across the following description of the gearbox on a 1970 (H reg) 2 door saloon with 48k on the clock:

"the gears on this car are not syncromesh gears ( you have to put them into 2nd gear then into first before you pull away, to keep them inline, you must not put them into 1st gear whilst moving)".

Does that sound correct to any of you experts?

Andy

A bit iffy. The gears on the Minor are synchro on 2nd,3rd, and top
and should engage with no nasty crunches etc. The 1st gear is NOT
synchro and should never be engaged whilst the car is moving.
However it should engage with no trouble whilst stationary and if
it sometimes is difficult it may help to flick in to 2nd and then back
to 1st. Perhaps that is what they mean?

Hi Andy

The Minor Gearbox has synchromesh on 2nd, 3rd & 4th gears but not on 1st & reverse. You only need 1st gear to pull away from a standstill. Any movement at all & 2nd gear should be used so you should not engage 1st gear on the move.
You should not have to put it into 2nd gear before engaging 1st unless there is a gearbox or clutch linkage fault.

Rog

It's very common to have to just touch the lever back onto second gear before pushing forward into 1st gear. This just turns the gear train slightly to align the teeth better to allow 1st gear to engage. Perfectly possible to engage 1st on the move - for uphill hairpin bends on Rallies - just double-de-clutch. But if buying a Minor - the gearbox, and in fact any of the mechanical parts are almost irrelevant - it's the body condition that matters. All the rest is easily and cheaply fixed. Rusty body scraps the car !

I doubt that most of our board watchers know how to double
declutch. If they learnt to drive on modern cars they would
never have had to practice the art.

you have to put them into 2nd gear then into first before you pull away

Well the description can be taken 2 ways -

Firstly that the e-bay seller is a bit poor on his technical description and means there is no synchro on 1st therefore using 2nd to stabilise the shafts prevents crunching on 1st (completely normal and only going to cause confusion by making a big deal of it in the advert)

Or secondly that the gearbox or clutch is faulty and therefore a lot harder than the average Minor to get into 1st (and therefore covering his rear by stating the gear engaement problem in the addy)

Hello all,

going back many years when I passed my test, I took it in a three speed Ford Consul, with no synchromesh on first gear. It was mandatory to be able to engage first gear on the move or a fail would result.

Alec

Alec,

In those days (Oh £$%*&(&* I remember them too well!) it was a driving licence test requirement that if you used any car fitted with a 3 speed gearbox (forward gears that is) you had to demonstrate that you could change into first gear.

I did some learning on a Vauxhall Cresta (PB?) - 3 speed cplumn shift (all synchro) + overdreive on 2.6 litre straight 6. Then the test in a Viva HA....

Challenging!

I'd second the comments above - sometimes it's necessary to pull the gear leve back into the 2nd gear gate just to align the gearbox shafts to allow easy engagement of 1st - my parents had to do that on a 2 year old Moggie - it's a "design feature"

Colin

Yeah, I often wonder whether if taking the driving test in my own car whether i'd be given faults for not going into first when I should while on the move(tho im along way from needing to take a test anyway).
Also isn't double declutch just where you press and depress the clutch twice (sorry im no good at explanations so I hope you follow that ;) ) ? I've never tried while moving - tried going into first while moving but the minor is well adapted to telling you off by sending a juddering shock through your arm- but I've had to use it for getting into first or reverse occasionally while starting off.
Btw is it bad on a minor to jump gears, eg. going from 4th to 2nd etc etc etc same as the latest highway codes/ driver training tells you to do?

is it bad on a minor to jump gears, eg. going from 4th to 2nd etc etc etc same as the latest highway codes/ driver training tells you to do?

I've no idea what the highway code says, but jumping gears is fine.

If your Minor has enough torque to allow it !
Back to the original poster - now that we have sorted out the gearbox - are you buying the car then ?

Chief wrote:Also isn't double declutch just where you press and depress the clutch twice

Yes but when changing down the speed of the two gears being meshed has to be equal. The first clutch depression is for moving to neutral then blip the throttle to increase engine revs to enable engaging gear during second depression. To achieve this properly takes practice knowing the correct amount of engine revs for it to happen without a crunch of gears.

Hello all,

also knowing how to match engine speed to gear selection (it doesn't only need to be done while double de-clutching) is a useful skill should you be unfortunate enough to have a clutch failure which won't release. Perhaps less common on the Minor mechanical clutch but those with hydraulic or cable actuated clutches must know the feeling where the pedal sinks to the floor and the gears won't select. Even on busy roads (town traffic is something else) it's possible to drive home if you are used to adjusting engine speed to gear and road speed.

Alec

Am I the only one who's ever had the clutch actuating rod snap then?

Totally agree Alec. It's a skill that's often overlooked nowadays. I have unfortunately had to do this a few times. The most recent was the clutch cable snapping in my Rover: 22 miles from home! I drove back home matching the revs so that the gears engaged properly. You soon get used to it! I even raced a BMW down the A500 (and won! ).

Alec wrote:Hello all,

also knowing how to match engine speed to gear selection (it doesn't only need to be done while double de-clutching) is a useful skill should you be unfortunate enough to have a clutch failure which won't release. Perhaps less common on the Minor mechanical clutch but those with hydraulic or cable actuated clutches must know the feeling where the pedal sinks to the floor and the gears won't select. Even on busy roads (town traffic is something else) it's possible to drive home if you are used to adjusting engine speed to gear and road speed.

Alec

That's right Alec. Once had to drive from Manchester to Liverpool after a broken clutch cable and also more recently rescue my youngest daughter from the centre of Liverpool (broken clutch cable). Both cars had syncromesh on all forward gears and adjusting engine speed although not essential certainly helped for smoother clutchless gearchanging!

Hello Andrew,

not a response I'd expected, you must be lucky!

Alec

Both my Minors used to do this as well. Sometimes you would need to go into 2nd (with clutch depressed) to enable easy selection of first.

Or, if facing down a slight slope, (like my drive) allow the car to roll a few inches and 1st is easy to select.

Its one of those "Character" things that we know and love!

BIGGINGER.....not by a long way, that clutch linkage suffers
a great deal of neglect. My operating rod was hanging on by
the skin of its teeth when I bought it.

should you be unfortunate enough to have a clutch failure which won't release. Perhaps less common on the Minor mechanical clutch but those with hydraulic or cable actuated clutches must know the feeling where the pedal sinks to the floor and the gears won't select. Even on busy roads (town traffic is something else) it's possible to drive home if you are used to adjusting engine speed to gear and road speed.

You certainly wouldn't get far throught the midlands during the day - you might just get 100 metres tot he next roundabout and then stop/stall and walk as you're not going to get into gear when stationary