Morris Minor Owners Club

Hi,is there any way of priming the oil pump on my 1098 engine which was apparently rebuilt to a really high standard by a member of this club.What I want to know is the engine has been installed,wired up and piped up,filled with oil.I was advised to turn the engine over (no distributor fitted yet) until the oil light went out,this never did after numerous attempts of 15 seconds duration.I then was advised to take out the oil pressure switch and with a suitable container the engine was turned over,me expecting oil to come out at a fast rate,there was no a single drop.HELP !!

Normally you can prime the oil pump via the oil pump priming plug which is item No: 16 in the following link:-
http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-mo ... 0f3d3.html
If you do not have the oil pump priming plug:-
Take the union out of the block that holds the transfer pipe from block to oil filter head - make sure that you do not loose the copper washers.
With a long necked oil can pump engine oil down into the pump (direct passage to pump). Turn the engine backwards a couple of complete turns to allow the oil to fill all the vane/lobe voids - fill till oil pump will accept no more oil.
Remove the transfer pipe and fill the oil filter through the transfer pipe hole.
If you have a screw on oil filter even easier as you can fill the oil filter before fitting.
Refit pipe and the union in the block not forgetting to refit the copper washers either side of the union.
Jobs done.

Wow,thanks for that Phil,you are a genius

I asked the same thing on a Mini forum a couple of years back and dear old Roy suggested the above and it worked a treat. It was a 1215 (1098 with Hillman Imp pistons) highly strung engine that i bought used and untested so was horrified when i started it up and it rumbled horrendously.
Roy to the rescue and it all worked out fine and the engine was a wee monster!

When starting my 1380cc engine after not being run for a few weeks I have always taken out the plugs, primed the pump and turned the engine over until a good oil pressure is shown on the oil pressure gauge, refitted the plugs and then started the engine.
With a high compression ratio and an expensive crankshaft I do not want to take any risks that oil is not circulating around the crankshaft journals when starting.

Thanks again,I am going into the garage now to have a go,how much oil do I put in the oil priming plug,will it matter that the oil is at the right level on the dipstick already,so I will be overfilling it? Do I also use the long necked oil can and take the tube off that feeds the filter and put oil in the pump?

You could, if you have one handy, use a 3-in-1 oil canister (the wee handy ones), with engine oil in it as they have a short spout. You don't need a lot, and i found when i used a funnel, it made a bit of a mess.
It is just the top banjo bolt that needs to come out, be careful of the washers, drop the oil into the engine via that, turn engine backwards by hand, top up oil again, turn backwards, do it a few times and it will be fine. Less than 100ml of oil i would say, but it was 6 years ago i did it.

If you have the priming plug fill the oil pump through that turning the engine forward this time to fill the pump. Fill with about a cupful of oil.
The problem is filling the oil filter if you do not have the screw on filter - it means taking off the connecting pipe and filling the filter through the union in the filter head. If the pipe is off you might as well fill the pump through the block union but turning the engine backwards this time to fill the pump and not use the oil pump priming plug.
The small additional amount of oil added into the sump will do no harm but check the oil level when you have oil pressure and adjust as necessary.

Hi Phil,how much oil should I put in the priming plug,also how many turns should I turn the engine over each time I put it in,I don't think I am putting enough in or turning the engine over manually with a spanner on the big bolt ? Cheers Roger

I would turn the engine over at least 10 full revolutions clockwise whilst at the same time filling the pump through the priming plug.
The oil pump turns at half the speed of the crankshaft and if there are five lobes in the oil pump all need to be filled so that is the reason for turning the engine a minimum of 10 full revolutions. Just turning the crankshaft with a spanner is more than sufficient to fill the oil pump - no need for fast revolutions.
Use as much oil as required to fill all the voids in the pump lobes/vanes. The more oil you get into the system the better.

Just noted this on 'e' bay:-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LMA-Oil-Press ... 6kntHMbNJA

Thanks again Phil,I havn't been turning the engine enough,I put some oil in the priming plug and then turn the engine with a spanner for a couple of revolutions then I put some more oil in,then turn the engine.After 3 or 4 goes I try pulling the starter switch,with no plugs/leads in an for 10 secondsd the light doesn't go out.
If I had someone to keep putting oil into the priming plug while I keep turning the engine over until I have done at least 10 revolutions,thenshould I see if the oil light goes out when I pull the starter and turn the engine over for about 10 to 15 seconds would that help or am I doing it wrong? cheers Roger

If you turn the engine over on the starter without the priming plug fitted you will be pulling air into the system through the priming plug hole and not oil from the sump therefore you will not get oil pressure.
Prime the pump again then re-fit the priming plug and turn the engine over on the starter with the plugs removed and you should get oil pressure.

Yes that's what I did,I fastened the bolt down in the priming plug,ut I didn't do enough revolutions with the spanner and I didn't put oil in at the same time as turning the engine over with the spanner,which I think that is how you mean for me to do it.You said a minimum of 10 revolutions clockwise and be putting oil in the primer plug at the same time,then replace the bolt and try with the starter to see if the light goes out,is that correct? Sorry to be a nuisance

Yes.
You need to fill all the voids in the pump and then it should work.

I have ordered a wet gauge to see if I have oil pressure as I cannot believe that the light stays on.I have been told it should register any pressure.Is it possible that the oil pump could be faulty or that it has been installed incorrectly such as not fitting a gasket correctly.
I bought the engine from a member who told me it has been rebuilt using all new parts,no recon parts at all and I paid him well thinking I had bought the best.He said that he and his father built the engine to put in his dad's traveller,then sadly his dad died suddenly,so the member wanted to sell the engine.I have since heard a lot of bad things about this member who has a poor reputation,so maybe I am being a mug,I trusted him and with this oil light problem,I am not as trusting.

An easy way to check if you have oil pressure without financial outlay is to remove the oil pressure gauge put your finger (covered in a rubber glove) over the hole and spin the engine on the starter if there is any pressure you will feel the pressure on your finger and your finger will be pushed away from the hole.
To be honest there is not much that can go wrong with the oil pump but it is important that the pump and gasket is orientated correctly to the inlet and outlet passages which is nearly impossible to do otherwise as the mounting holes are irregularly spaced.
So long as the pick up pipe in the sump is fitted and the union is tight the oil pump should once primed suck up the oil and push it out along the oil galleries.
You are doing all the right things so at the moment a complete mystery.

Thanks again Phil,you are a great help What is the risk of starting the engine,but not revving ,is it likely to cause damage? I am worried about the bearings

Just leave the spark plugs out until you are absolutely certain that you have oil pressure.
I would not attempt to start the engine until oil pressure is confirmed.
If there is no oil pressure you will ruin the bearings even on tick over.

Thanks Phil,plugs are coming out again

plugs are coming out again

PTH is practical. The plugs should never be installed before oil pressure is confirmed. A simple, and oft overlooked principle. The crank bearings should have sufficient initial assembly lubrication to avoid any damage - unless those bearings are under load.

RAB