Morris Minor Owners Club

Recently directed off into the usual coned off area (with a temporary sign 'Traffic Census Ahead' by a police officer, then to be approached very keenly by a man in hi vis coat with a badge and clip board. I did not choose to answer his last question

I know I can be lawfully re directed by a police officer in uniform and I need to comply (for this particular bit only in this scenario !)

"Hello Sir, we 'need' to ask you a few questions today !"
A. "With respect, what questions are you 'needing' answers for and can you show me your list of questions please.
Q. These are general questions we are asking everyone stopped today. So can we make a start so you can be soon on your way!
A. With respect, do I 'need' to answer all your questions as I believe that participating in this census is entirely voluntary on my part as to whether I choose to answer all your questions . I also assume you are in fact a civilian requesting certain questions from a member of the public.
"Er well, we are stopping you today sir in order for all drivers being stopped legally to answer these questions and the the police are in attendance."
Q. Where are you going and what is the purpose of your journey?
A. Near Poole to pick up a part for my old car.
Q. And the post code for that destination?
A. That's was my answer thank you.
Q. The first line of the address and post code from where you started your journey?
A. My home address is 4 miles east of here.
Q. Your home adress postcode and first line of your home address then?
A. That was my answer thank you
Q.Which age catagory do you fall into from this list I am showing you?
A. OK I will agree to say 'retired'
Q But what is your actual age?
A. That was my answer thank you
Q. And finally - which income band do you fit into from this list of ' from and to' income bands of those shown ?
A. I do not wish to answer that one thank you !!

My vehicle has MOT valid insurance and road tax , I have nothing to hide and I feel I abide with all the necessary relevant traffic laws and I generally choose to be polite and civil in any such encounters . It's just that sometimes a few selected civilian individuals when given a hi vis coat, clip board and official badge adopt the wrong tone with a very impersonal approach (is it a form of power ego trip) thinking they have this 'official control ' temporarily over another individual

I guess they are just going through a tick list, on a temporary contract, on minimum wage, to provide data for some academic project, that will report (in 5 years time) and tell us something that we all knew anyway...

Yes this happened last Autumn when the roads in our area are at absolute maximum gridlock in our area anyway.
But when you are asked to agree to be labelled to be put in a 'box' as a particular socioeconomic group or class ,either an A-B-C1-C2 D or E for some reason then I declined the invitation.

I think you'll find you are in a 'box' already, From cradle to grave information is available/gathered from multiple sources without our participation

Perhaps we should all start lying to them? That's what seems to be happening in opinion polls

les wrote:I think you'll find you are in a 'box' already, From cradle to grave information is available/gathered from multiple sources without our participation

It is what Patrick McGoohan warned us about in the classic 60's TV series, The Prisoner.................

'The Prisoner'was really amazing for its time. Worth visiting Portmeirion where they filmed it.
Must be overdue for a remake.

The American's did do a remake a few years ago Steve. Unfortunately, in my opinion - and that of many others - it was very poor and had none of the qualities that made the original so good. The lead actor had none of the charisma of McGoohan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4qCDP0OiZs

I hope the following will be useful.

Police officers have powers under section 36(4) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 to stop vehicles for a traffic census. The census is then generally carried out by civilians.
However the same section makes it clear that you do not have to supply any information.
A census is obviously different from a road check by police for the purposes of detecting crime, in which case you would do well to answer any questions!

Any person driving a vehicle on a road can be stopped by police and are required to give their name, address and date of birth.

Hope that helps

Cheers

Since they spend so much time and effort on these surveys it would be interesting to know how much valid data they actually collect. How many people give accurate replies and what proportion lie, refuse or tell them to 'go forth and multiply' .?

Hi Ianmack

You might find this Governmental bulletin gives you a little more clarity.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... urveys.pdf

Cheers!

Thank you Mollyowner, what a wonderful piece of officialese gobbledegook! If I have read it correctly they are assuming 95% accuracy, but no mention of how this is assessed. Guesswork presumably.

I think that the authors of that need training in the use of plain English! It's like something from 'Yes Minister'.

SteveClem wrote:I think that the authors of that need training in the use of plain English! It's like something from 'Yes Minister'.

Aha..... So this is the explanation in this officianado document in the grid table labelled 'socioeconomic groups' why I was asked for my household earnings by that census guy !! ?? (that I declined) ................
qoute " Data req - Socioeconomic groups: For Use in - Trip generation: Sources -Census,Local household travel survey,Household expenditure survey: Notes - Not often used except in distinguishing workers from unemployed and retired. but some models catagorise work travel by broad SEG groups (e.g. blue/white collar) and land-use models also require considerable SEG data."

Though somehow I am very little the wiser. I now my place as he report is not obviously for me to understand as I would probaly fall in the catagory by our elected government as one of the many 'common people'

I think comedian Stanley Unwin could have done a better job , but alas sadly he passed away in 2002. How many remember him ?
'Professer' Stanly Unwin (he was the ultimate professor of gobyldegook) He was a special guest in the 1961 Carry On comedy film 'Carry on Regardless' where his language was known as 'Unwinese' (also known as Basic Engly Twenty Fido')
I qoute from a passage read out at his memorial ceremony -
[i]Goodly Byload to loyal peeploders,! Now all gatherymost to amuse it and have a tilty elbow or a nice cuffle-oteedee - Oh Yes! "[/i]

Professor Unwin's spirit seems to be busy advising government copy writers.

Yes, I would agree Ian, it is couched in officialese gobbledegoo!

I do not find it particulary gobblrda whatsit at all. True, there are many references to formal publications and reports e.g. LENNON, DMRB but it is very logically set out and moreover, written in British english which is often not the case amongst the contributors to this Forum.

It is sadly true that few People permanently adjust the Default on their Computers to English (GB) instead of USA and also very sad to hear so many americanisms in daily speech owing to the large amount of undubbed american TV programmes---but this is slightly off Topic.

I cannot help but agree

My original point was the observation that the person employed taking the census on that day seemed to lack what I regarded as sufficient training and method of approach on how and and why questions were' asked' . I think that it should be explained that the answers to various questions including your home address and post code etc. asked are of a voluntary nature. This is a bit different in saying in an authoritarian " I need this information from you today" particularly the questioning about providing personal household annual income presumably to be catagorised as a particular socio economic group. That to me was a surprise for such personal information to be told was 'needed' as part of that particular census on the day . ( Purely my opinion)

Nickol wrote:I do not find it particulary gobblrda whatsit at all. True, there are many references to formal publications and reports e.g. LENNON, DMRB but it is very logically set out and moreover, written in British english which is often not the case amongst the contributors to this Forum.

It is sadly true that few People permanently adjust the Default on their Computers to English (GB) instead of USA and also very sad to hear so many americanisms in daily speech owing to the large amount of undubbed american TV programmes---but this is slightly off Topic.

Very interesting Nickol, as a native English speaker educated to higher degree level (albeit in the sciences) I find it practically incomprehensible. I suspect that we need some EU interpretation skills over here!