1969 Convertible Vin number..help please :)

[bluegrass]

I saw a very interesting 1969 Convertible this evening. It looked original in all the right places, spot welds etc, and i have seen some original ones to compare it to, but when i checked the log book, it had an M/A2S5 vin number. On the plate in the engine bay, it had the same end numbers to the log book vin number but began with the usual convertible M/AT vin code. Am I right in assuming it must be a converted saloon and the vin changed under the hood, or did the very last convertibles for some weird reason have a M/A2S5 vin on the log book?

Any help much appreciated.

[Budgie]

My tourer is one of the last of the run , it's a 1969 model, and it has a "MAT" vin number for what it's worth .

[bluegrass]

Thats perfect, many thanks...it leads to my conclusion that its most likely a converted saloon.....but one of the most 'original' looking i have seen.

[Budgie]

Some ones obviously taken the time and skill / quality / craftsmanship, to do a proper job if it's got the spot welds in the right places fair play.

[bluegrass]

Exactly....very well done. The only place i thought where it could possibly be a slight sign to a conversion was at the back of the hood behind the base of the rear side windows....here is a picture of an original like yours. The car i saw tonight was slightly different when comparing the two sides, but very slight.[frame][/frame]

[Budgie]

Of course there are a few other places where "strengtheners " are welded in which wouldn't be so easy to see but the area that you've shown in the last picture shows another point / place to compare genuine and post production tourers.

[bluegrass]

I used to think it must be fairly easy to 'disguise' the differences when reading about things on the forums, but after seeing some originals v post production I realised there are some subtle differences that would take a great deal of nowledge and skill to fake.....todays car is the best i've seen....luckily i've had just enough experience to have a gut feeling...not that its not still a very good car. I dont mind a conversion as long as its aesthetically correct, but an original still holds an appeal for me.

[Budgie]

I know what you mean. When I was after a tourer it didn't bother me as to whether or not it was a genuine convertible of not just that if it was a post production model then if it was done correctly then it wouldn't have bothered me as the price difference is quite high and unless you have a trained eye then no one would know any different. However I was lucky to find a genuine tourer in very good condition and at a fairly reasonable price at the time. But I am glad I do have a genuine one tho . .

[bluegrass]

Good for you thats a perfect scenario. I'm a little out of touch with prices. I have a couple of classic cars I'm intending to sell to free up some funds. I want to end up with 2 Morris's. I have a 2 door saloon that needs a little work I'm intending to have done in the next month or so, and i would like to find a very good condition convertible....I wonder what a decent convertible would cost these days, excluding the rather extortionate dealer prices?

[bmcecosse]

Have you considered this one ? http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=64007

[bluegrass]

Hi Roy,

I'm looking for a more original looking standard car. I have a white saloon , so another colour preferably. I'm not in any particular hurry, just starting to take a look at some cars.

[ManyMinors]

Several years ago I was in a similar position to yourself - looking for a (preferably genuine) convertible. I looked at 10 or 12 cars which were advertised as "genuine" but I doubt more than half of them actually were and, because of the price premium I finally bought a fairly well converted saloon which was completely rot-free, inexpensive (certainly cheaper than a rusty "original") and it has served us very well. A few of the "genuine" convertibles I viewed had all the correct ID tags, V5 etc but the car itself was a converted saloon . Many sellers - including dealers who should know better - simply didn't know the difference and chose to believe what the previous owner had told them. And some of course just lied!

A converted saloon is always going to have the extra sill reinforcement welded to the "wrong" side of the inner sill as it is impossible to weld it inside the box section as original. Also, I've never seen a converted car where the extra supports to the "B" posts were quite the right shape as the very neat factory originals. However, the MAIN giveaway which I have found to be pretty foolproof is to open the boot and look up to the deck panel/base of the roof area. If the car was originally a saloon, you will still see the remains of the spotwelds where the roof was originally welded on to the deck panel. While you're there look at the upright panel behind the rear parcel shelf. On a saloon, there is a trim panel covered in headlining material which is secured to this panel with three self tapping screws. If these three holes are still present you'll see them from inside the boot and they too would suggest that the car started off as a saloon. There are many other things to check such as the markings on the glass. This is also date coded and should all roughly match on an original car. If both rear quarter glasses are new, they probably came with a convertible "kit" but an original convertible should still have the original glass markings the same as the rest of the car. Don't judge the whole car on this one detail however as people have used original glass etc from scrapped convertibles to use in conversions of course and similarly there are sometimes legitimate reasons for fitting new glass.....

It is a bit of a minefield and a certain amount of research is required but, as for prices, just look on sites such as ebay and carandclassic to see what cars are advertised for and what they sell for. You'll have to go and look at several cars because they all look pretty good in photographs don't they! Good luck.

[bluegrass]

Thanks very much for that information, it gives me anther level of checks when i view cars. I find it interesting looking at Morris's and trying to piece together the history. I'll post up any further adventures in the convertible hunt. With that in mind I have got another query on a car i have seen....I'll post it again in the bodywork section, but here is a picture i am a little confused about. I do believe this is an original convertible, but it has a section of interior bodywork i'm not sure about. I have labelled it on the picture itself. My question is wether the split in this rear panel is 'normal'. Cheers[frame][/frame]

[dozergyp]

Hi All I have just been reading vin numbers re convertibles
My 57 has vin number FBU11/555093 On the heritage certificate it got morris minor tourer
But a bit concerned now, Is it a original convertible
Help !

[bluegrass]

I see what you mean. On the ' potteries branch' website, if they are correct, they indicate that your car would be a 2 door dark green saloon. I think the club member 'Pomreg' could help you more.

[ManyMinors]

The "split" you show in your photograph is just a panel join which is normally welded up. Perhaps Fred who's job it was at Cowley was off work that day or needed a quick break! I don't believe it is any different in a saloon or convertible though. As I said before, if there are no drill holes in the upright panel beneath the rear windscreen in a saloon (where the lower piece of headlining would have been), then it has probably always been a convertible.

[bluegrass]

Thanks for that. No wonder Fred only lasted a couple of years before being sacked, though i suspect they employed him again in the early 1970's

I'm seeing the car again, so will take a print out of your extra checks.

[ASL642]

Another giveaway - obviously a convertible had no interior courtesy light (no roof!) so there should be no holes in the door pillar for the courtesy light switch. If there are the vehicle started life as a saloon.

[bluegrass]

From what i remember from previous research, and i stand to be corrected, I think many genuine convertibles actually had the coutesy light switch holes. So though a possible clue on early cars, I don't think its a reliable guide. I like the look of your clipper blue convertible by the way....one of my favourite colours.

[ManyMinors]

Another giveaway - obviously a convertible had no interior courtesy light (no roof!) so there should be no holes in the door pillar for the courtesy light switch. If there are the vehicle started life as a saloon.

I'm afraid that is highly misleading. The holes ARE there in original convertibles because the hole was made during panel manufacture (from 1959) and a convertible used the same panel as a saloon. The difference is that on a convertible, the factory fitted a rubber grommet into the hole and on a saloon they fitted the courtesy light switch. Some convertible owners have subsequently fitted the switches to operate a light fitted onto or below the dashboard.