Morris Minor Owners Club

Checking my rear lights in the reflection of a shop window, I thought that the brake lights had stopped working. I discovered that the brake lights were not coming on until the pedal has reached its maximum amount of travel. I continued applying the brakes to confirm that it was not an intermittent problem or loose connection etc. and each time the brake lights only came on when the pedal was fully depressed. The brakes are working well, fluid level is correct, and car recently passed its MOT, at a respectable garage that are very thorough. Have checked the Workshop Manual and Haynes, no reference at all.
Has anyone else had this problem? I assume the switch, which is working every time, is activated by fluid pressure so there is no adjustment. Have seen references to faulty/imported brake light switches, so hesitate to just change the switch. Would appreciate any help or advice.
JR

You are right in assuming that the brake light switch is pressure operated and so it is not adjustable and only works when the pedal is fully down. When the pedal is first pressed there is not enough pressure in the system.

It is possible to have the brake lights on earlier if the switch is operated by movement of the pedal, as I think most are on modern cars. On a Minor you would need a new switch plus brackets made up to fit.

ianmack wrote:You are right in assuming that the brake light switch is pressure operated and so it is not adjustable and only works when the pedal is fully down. When the pedal is first pressed there is not enough pressure in the system.

It is possible to have the brake lights on earlier if the switch is operated by movement of the pedal, as I think most are on modern cars. On a Minor you would need a new switch plus brackets made up to fit.

I have to disagree with the suggestion that this is normal - absolutely right that it works on the pressure in the system, but if working correctly, the lights should operate with the gentlest touch of the pedal. It's not the case that they only work with the pedal 'fully down'. JohnRogers - Just to clarify, when you say 'fully down', I take it you mean when the pedal is down as far as you can press it, but not that it travels to the floor? If it does, then that's another problem (e.g. adjustment, air in the system etc.) that would need investigating urgently. If the pedal travels too far, the lights won't operate properly, as there won't be sufficient pressure generated in the system to operate the switch.

It's true that the currently available switches are poor quality and don't last long, but not changing one that is broken is not going to help The new ones generally (in my experience) work fine, but for a limited period (perhaps a year or two) before they start to exhibit the symptoms that you describe, i.e. taking greater and greater pedal pressure to operate. I would change it (which is a straightforward job) as you don't want someone going in to the back of you!

Unfortunately, this is just one of the products currently available that is poor quality and needs checking/replacing far more frequently than in the past. As it's safety-critical, it's a shame that to the best of my knowledge the club hasn't shown any desire to secure a source of decent switches, given that I'm sure the funds are available and the potential of such initiatives has been discussed in the past. I'm not a club member any more though, so can't bring it up directly with them.

Hi Liammonty,
Many thanks for your reply. No problem with the brake pedal going to the floor, it only goes down approx. 2/3rds of the travel and remains solid as it should do, but the lights only come on when it reaches the last bit, even after several applications one after the other they only come on at the end of travel 'by which time as you say someone has probably hit you up the rear end' Particularly if is one of these clowns that has to sit on your bumper because you are an old car, and has to get round you no matter what. I will change the switch and hopefully that will solve the problem. Thanks again.

Good luck with it John. Just get in the habit of checking them after you've replaced it (as it seems you already are!) - I find it's easy to do if you're backing up to a wall or something in the dark. That way, if (or when) the new switch does fail, you'll be on to it straight away!

Going down 2/3rd of the way is far too much ! I would be terrified to drive a car with brakes like that. As above - fix the brakes so the pedal moves very little before the pressure builds up. That's the problem - not the switch. The MOT only checks the lights come on - they do - so that's a 'pass'. They should really have 'advised' long travel on the pedal . Is there too much 'free play' before anything happens - or is it just brake adjustment needing attention?

To me this definitely sounds like the switch, and is a typical fault. There is a very good article in the current Minor Matters (May/June 2016) that looks in detail at the problem of failing switches, including cutting a couple open to examine them. As with most things in the Club Magazine, highly recommended reading.

Agreed, almost definitely the switch, even if the brakes do need adjusting. If you've strong legs, then 2/3 travel pressing as hard as you can isn't terrible. Assuming the car's a 1098, if you've no more than 1 1/2" of free-play in the pedal (or less, for that matter!), all should be well.

The lights come on when the brake pressure rises - which in this case only happens when the pedal is 2/3 down! Adjust the brakes properly first before messing about with the switch....... 2/3 down before you get brakes is crazy.

bmcecosse wrote:The lights come on when the brake pressure rises - which in this case only happens when the pedal is 2/3 down! Adjust the brakes properly first before messing about with the switch....... 2/3 down before you get brakes is crazy.

He didn't say he only gets brakes when the pedal is 2/3 of the way down - he said that is how far the pedal travels if he presses it as hard as he can. It may be that the brakes need adjusting, but if you read the post, it is also highly likely that the switch is kaput, as if pressure is achieved, the switch should operate straight away. Switches are known to fail frequently these days, unfortunately. I've had several go on my cars.

Quite correct, I did not say I only get brakes 2/3rds of the way down. 2/3rds (approx.)of the way down is the fullest extent of travel with the brake pedal being pressed really hard, which is when the lights come on, and only that at that point are they visible.
The brakes have all been completely replaced including master cylinder/pipes/wheel cylinders/linings/drums etc. some 2years ago, and work extremely well.
I always check the lights/indicators etc. whenever a "reflection situation" is available, and the brake light malfunction has only happened recently.
Sorry if there has been any misunderstanding.

It still shouldn't go 2/3 down! The pedal should be 'right there' and 'solid'.....I've never driven a car where the pedal goes 2/3 down . However - change the switch at your peril, but I would fix the brakes first. Maybe they need bleeding if the adjustments are all spot on?