An appeal for tolerance

[SteveClem]

I've noticed a few posts on here lately where new/ younger minor enthusiasts have got a bit frustrated or annoyed about what they see as unsympathetic or patronising responses to their queries.
I can see where they are coming from because when I started a couple of years back I'd never used a computer,couldn't type etc. And I got some right Arsey responses when I cocked up. In fact I nearly stopped using the forum. Glad I continued because almost everyone is great and even those who scared me have turned out to be pretty much ok...but intolerant of innocence.
I think that it's so important to encourage newcomers to this wonderful world of affordable classic cars.
Please can we all show a bit more tolerance and encouragement when newcomers ask what seem to be idiotic questions. We were all asking them at some point in our lives..

[Corn22]

I can see it would be very off putting to ask for help when you read some of the responses people get. I know there is a search function but it is not very user friendly especially when you get hundreds of results for a common word search. I personally find if I can't find the answer via the search I will look elsewhere rather than ask for help on the forum due to how a lot of responses are given. You may only get one negative comment amongst other helpful comments but its the negative one you remember.

[panky]

I thought you where about to ask for valve clearances
I promise to stop giving crap advice , although offered in a friendly manner, if those concerned wind in the old maths teacher façade and show their more forgiving side

[les]

Without wanting to dispute your observations, which I can't recall off hand, there is very little tolerance on this forum if someone is thought to have stepped over the line, I'm referring to the ease in which threads are locked, with this in mind I'm sure you would not have to fear that any post too far would be ignored. Generally speaking this is a very strict forum.

[LouiseM]

there is very little tolerance on this forum if someone is thought to have stepped over the line, I'm referring to the ease in which threads are locked

Five threads have been locked in the last 2.5 years which, considering the hundreds of threads started during that period, doesn't seem excessive.

[les]

Those hundreds must have passed the test then I am/was only trying to express the fact, in my opinion, that dispite the apparent infrequency, the content prompting the locking is usually not severe enough to warrant such action. Tolerance works both ways. However as I think I may have said before, appreciate the service your team provide (Mostly )

[LouiseM]

But Steveclem has made a valid point Les. To respond by saying that the mods will deal with posts that go too far is completely missing the point. People should be 'self-moderating' the tone of their postings by thinking about how they might come across to other members, particularly new or inexperienced ones. Two people in this thread have advised that they were either considering leaving the messageboard or that they go elsewhere for answers to their questions. I'm sure that's not how most people on here want other members to feel. Please don't imply that this is something for the mods to deal with. We will (and we do) when we spot a response which might upset others, or we receive a complaint, but everyone here has a responsibility to consider what they are posting and think about how it might come across to others.

Just taking a minute to think before clicking the 'submit' button might make a lot of difference to new and inexperienced members. There may be a small minority on here who object to the mods considering the feelings of others but personally I'd rather be thought of as 'intolerant' by a small minority than be thought of as 'inconsiderate of others feelings' by the majority.

I've moved this thread from off topic to general discussion as it's an important topic that applies to all members.

[trabant]

I am glad to see something is finally being done about this although I would stress its not tolerance that's required. What is required is the ability to realise a forum is a place for asking questions and the person asking them should be able to get a response without being bullied or belittled. I run a business repairing domestic appliances and if I answered questions in the way some have on here I would have no customers.

I wouldn't class myself as young I'm 38 however its about time the club realised that no one lives forever and you need to welcome younger members or there will be no one to look after the cars in the future. Also worth remembering your running out of new people who " had one of those " years ago any younger minor owners wont have the affection from having owned one before and they will need to be attracted by a friendly owners club.

[LouiseM]

its about time the club realised that no one lives forever and you need to welcome younger members or there will be no one to look after the cars in the future. Also worth remembering your running out of new people who " had one of those " years ago any younger minor owners wont have the affection from having owned one before and they will need to be attracted by a friendly owners club.

The club does welcome younger members, and incidently has just won the category 'supporting the next generation' at the National Classic Car Club awards at the NEC. There is a thriving young members group, which is a credit to the club members who set this up. I think the issue you raise is that the messages posted here reflect on the club and it's members even if those posting the comments which are causing upset are not actually club members. This messageboard is a great resource for both club and non-club members but I guess if you use a club messageboard but are not a member of that club you might be less inclined to bother about how your messages come across to others. There may also be others who think they are being helpful and genuinely don't realise the impact of their messages. Not sure what the best solution is other than for everyone to take note of steveclem's message and consider whether it applies to them.

[Monty-4]

Being a young-ish member who has asked a few stupid questions but also knows how to use the search function - I think some of this might be helped by some FAQ-style stickies and/or a bit of a update to the technical tips section. I'd be willing to help with this, of course.

People of my generation might even need pictures. I knew how to build a PC but didn't actually know what a socket wrench was the day I bought my Minor!

[les]

Just wishing to clear the air a bit, as I'm in danger of becoming the villain of the piece here. Let's spell it out, im as anti hostility as the next person, where I might differ is in the level of sensitivity one should adopt before complaining. Now I don't know the posts in question, I'm only going by the fact that nothing outlandish sticks in my mind. If I did know the source of this debate, I would of course review and check that my comments still applied. I'm sure in the past I have posted a few 'cheeky' replies in response but don't think I have ever instigated an upsetting one, and presumably not in this case either. Hope this explains my position.

[amgrave]

You've got nothing to worry about Les. I know that some people on here can be a bit terse at times but I know there are people like that out there and have come across the sort in the past and I make allowances for them, we are all different after all. Some find it hard to accept that people are different and get upset at what they think are personal jibes. The knowledge these types have though are still valuable even if we don't always like the way they are offered. Let's try to be a bit more tolerant of all.

[The vast minority]

Let's all have a group hug

[millerman]

Interesting thread!

Whilst the moderators do an excellent job I do feel that a short light-hearted comment from one of the moderators, if they can see a post is too confrontational, would calm things down. I don't want to see the mods having to justify their actions on-line, if a poster has really gone over the top then then this can be dealt with via pm's to the errant poster.

I follow another Minor forum and the mods there seem to be able to diffuse issues there by a gentle comment on-line

I suppose on-line personalities are often much different to the "real" person

Blimely, just realised I've been a member of this forum since 2003

[Fingolfin]

For my part, I stopped posting on the forum more than a year ago for this very reason, though I continue to read new posts.

[liammonty]

I think the unfortunate thing is that I suspect the few who frequently offend actually don't realise that their posts are fairly routinely quite offensive. If someone doesn't believe they are wrong, they won't make any effort to change.

[amgrave]

Exactly, they don't intend to be like it, it's just the way they are and that's why I say we need to be a bit more tolerant as we are all different.

[bmcecosse]

One problem is where folks post up with eg 'help - my car won't start' - and then when asked for details, the question is either ignored or only vaguely answered. Posters need to realise we need information. ie When did the car last run (10 years ago - or yesterday..) /is the battery flat/is it turning over/is the petrol pump ticking/is there a spark at the plug leads... And this can sometimes go on for ages - trying to prise information out - and this is very 'trying' to say the least when attempting to give advice at a distance. My other gripe is when someone asks 'where can I get xxx part'. This is understandable when it's a very rare/old part of course - but for run-of-the-mill parts the answer is to look at the suppliers' websites - all easily found by Google, and the 'good' ones come with excellent exploded diagrams which show all the parts in relation to each other - with details of possible better quality alternatives, and prices of course. To expect others to do this for them is 'a bit much' I suggest. I do believe some folks think the forum is a 'paid for' service they receive from their MMOC membership, not realising it's a service provided by fellow Minor owners in their own time, and all doing their best to help when they can. Indeed I'm sure many forum members have actually gone round to physically help the person in difficulty ( in my case to change an engine) which is why a 'location' is helpful. Otherwise I do my very best on line to give straight forward/economic advice to the problems that crop up - even though they are often very common problems and could be solved by using the 'search' facility - which I fully agree is often less than helpful - throwing up all manner of red herrings.... Since we are having a griping session here - my current pet hate is people (Traders/Breakers ?) coming on the forum and offering parts for sale at highly inflated prices. Unfortunately i'm sure some people (perhaps new to the forum) are taken in by these prices... I do urge anyone considering buying used parts on the forum to check carefully elsewhere (or ask more experienced forum members for an opinion by PM ) if the asking price is realistic. And it's always worth trying to 'bargain' for a lower price with the seller! If anyone doesn't want my advice or help - just put me on your naughty step and then you won't be troubled by my ramblings! Simples.....

[les]

The gripes you list are nothing compared to use of Simples ----- at the end of a post!

[bmcecosse]

I knew that would catch your eye Les...you need to be more tolerant....