Morris Minor Owners Club

Im thinking/intending on fitting a remote oil cooler to my Moggy, now, as we all know there is an abundance of space in the Morris engine bay but I was wondering where the most efficient/practical place would be to mount it.

Does anyone have one fitted?
Can you offer any advice or lessons learned from doing this mod?

Many will say - 'you don't need one' - and indeed unless high powered and regularly thrashed in hot weather, you probably don't. Oils have improved greatly since the good old days when sweet smelling Castrol R was de rigueur. Mine was mounted in front of the rad grille, but probably the best place is behind the grille - but in front of the radiator. Or - you could fit a narrower (but more efficient aluminium) radiator - with the oil cooler set vertically alongside.

You don't say, David, what your engine is.

Assuming its a standard 1098 cc, like Roy, I'd advise against it but if you intend to proceed anyway I strongly recommend an oil temperature gauge be fitted first. I've had one for some 12 years and have NEVER seen anything over 100C for the oil (I've checked the gauge against a very good mercury thermometer, by the way) and only once got over 95C having driven my loaded Trav some 150 miles northward and then on the M1 & A1(M) kept up 65mph(GPS measured) for a good hour on a summer's day. (And that's with a 89C rad thermostat fitted.) And being a bit of an oil burner that was at an oil level halfway between the MAX & MIN marks. Of course, to maintain that speed on long motorway rises required a fair bit of full throttle at times.

A larger engine driven hard might be different - and for that I expect the likes of Islipminor will be along shortly to advise!

Regards, MikeN.

Its in preperation for an engine build im planning, its still in the 'back of a fag packet' stage but will be based around a 1275 an will be intended to be driven hard as hell

Mike,

If you insist!

We have a Metro 'sandwich' type water-cooled oil cooler fitted to our 1380. The water feed is in 5/8" bore hose from the outlet of the heater (Mini core) and is 'always on'.

We use Castrol 10W/60 Edge full synthetic oil. With an 88°C water stat all year round, the normal running oil temperature is ~90°C, rising to 100/105°C on extended motorway running (~4,000 rpm, or 80/85 mph) and up to ~120°C after a session on a track day in hot weather. It is very stable and even after 2 hours or more on continental motorways in the summer, the oil temperature is rarely more than 110°C. All very well within the limits of a full synthetic oil. The oil pressure when 'hot' is 40/45 lb/in2 idle and 65 lb/in2 running at 2,500 rpm plus.

IslipMinor wrote:Mike,

If you insist!

We have a Metro 'sandwich' type water-cooled oil cooler fitted to our 1380. The water feed is in 5/8" bore hose from the outlet of the heater (Mini core) and is 'always on'.

We use Castrol 10W/60 Edge full synthetic oil. With an 88°C water stat all year round, the normal running oil temperature is ~90°C, rising to 100/105°C on extended motorway running (~4,000 rpm, or 80/85 mph) and up to ~120°C after a session on a track day in hot weather. It is very stable and even after 2 hours or more on continental motorways in the summer, the oil temperature is rarely more than 110°C. All very well within the limits of a full synthetic oil. The oil pressure when 'hot' is 40/45 lb/in2 idle and 65 lb/in2 running at 2,500 rpm plus.

Thanks for all the information

As a tailpiece to this, I think the water cooling approach to controlling oil temperature has two distinct advantages over air cooling. Firstly it's far more flexible in how and where it's installed (which addresses the original question), and secondly it attempts to tackle the more common problem, that of too low an oil temperature. Thus on my standard 1098 I doubt I'll see an oil temp above 70C before the summer, and often when driving around locally, (shopping and that sort of thing) I'll be lucky to get above 50C.

Generally, when searching the interweb and consulting old manuals, it seems that 80C is the minimum we should be aiming at (although I can't find any scientific or engineering basis for this) and that's just not possible for most of the year with the normal layout.

Regards, MikeN.

Mike,

Yes the 'warming' part of the water/oil heat exchanger is definitely a benefit. My 'normal' running oil temperature is around 80/90°C around town in average conditions, and then ~90°C on more general road running.

My understanding for a minimum of 80/90°C is to get any water that is suspended in the oil a good chance to evaporate, or at higher temperatures, boil off and prevent an emulsion being created. The emulsion is instantly recognisable as the 'mayonnaise' inside the oil filler cap, and is often caused by too low oil temperatures. Hence the advice often given to give the car a good run regularly.

On large diesel engines it is usual for the raw cooling water to go through the air intercooler first then the jacket cooling water(on a car, the water that goes round the block) goes through the oil cooler to keep the temperature of the oil up to a reasonable level. The water coolers sensed the outlet temperature from the cylinder heads and diverted the water through the cooler, the oil temperature sensor was on the oil inlet to the cooler and mixed the oil to control the inlet temperature.

Yes Islip, that's my understanding too, but I can't find any published research that shows how water evaporation from oil increases with temperature. I suspect that when the bulk oil temp is 80C or above then we've areas inside the engine such as the undersides of the pistons, the tops of the exhaust valve guides, etc that at are already over 100c and so are boiling off water locally. The breathing system then gets rid of it.

Long ago and far away I flew a couple of times in Shackletons and there the engineer kept his eye on the Griffons' oil temps and trimmed the cooler gills to keep around 80C. And it was common for piston engine aircraft to have a sector marked on the oil temp gauges between 80C and about 110C (see "Cockpit: An illustrated history of WW2 aircraft interiors" by Donald Nijboer).

It's interesting that the Metro "sandwich" water/oil heater exchanger is so effective. That seems the way to go, David; I see Vizard discusses them (page 424). Are they easily available, Islip? And heat management of the form that Smithskids describes is the way of the future!

Regards, MikeN.

Mike
I have only seen one MG metro oil to water heat exchanger come up for sale on 'e' bay in the last few years and that was so corroded that I gave it a miss.
I am not aware that they are currently available but you can get similar off 'e' bay in that they fit between filter and housing.
For example:-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alfa-Romeo-14 ... SwhkRWdBDB

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Ducato-1 ... SwLa9UU6nc

phil

As above - the MG Metro water/oil exchangers are now very rare. You would need to convince yourself that the other models offered would fit a Minor.... As before - unless going Racing or serious Rallying - I doubt you need an oil cooler at all.....

Here is another alternative and it looks the better bet and appears to be very similar to if not the same as the MG item.
NOS as well.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Coswoth- ... SwbdpWaCvp

The centre fitting bolt is straight forward:-

https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/s/oi ... sion-bolts

Phil

Thanks for those, Phil.

Phil,

The first link for the Modine looks to be identical to the MG Metro one - a bit expensive though?

I keep looking for a spare, but like you the only ones recently haven't looked very nice at all!

Richard
Yes a bit expensive but I suppose it is down to the rarity of the item and being NOS.
The seller is open to offers though.
Phil