Complete loss of power

[Dr Dan]

Hi -
A few weeks ago my 1968 Moggie got temperamental (lights ok, turning ignition key didn't turn over engine, but ignition lights were on, so we could push start it).

I installed a new solenoid, because the old one looked like something from the Titanic.
Not having a garage, and the deluges and little daylight have slowed me down. I want to check/clean/replace the wiring from dynamo -> starter -> solenoid -> battery -> fuses -> ignition switch (really hope I don't have to take the dashboard apart and do that.

Anyway:

a) starter turns over when connected straight to battery.
b) headlights don't light up
c) fuses ok & most earthing checked/cleaned.

WEIRD thing happened after all this, yesterday: When I turned the key to "start" (the ignition lights came on and there was a brief buzz from the big end.

So could it be simply the starter switch??

I had some advice on a previous thread (below) but started this new one.

Thanks in advance for any other tips

Dan

Dan
Before replacing the solenoid .....check out the charging system as Roy has suggested.

I would double check the main cables ( battery disconnected ) ....that is the heavy duty cables ( both ends ! )
1.Battery to earth 2. Battery to Solenoid 3. Solenoid to starter are clean and secure ( don't forget the battery posts and clamps themselves ).
Thinner wire ( i.e normal size for the ordinary wiring ) Connection WR white / red colour lucar connection to the solenoid, coming from the ignition switch, clean metal on the solenoid itself and that the "grip " is firm.

I am assuming that the Starter motor is bolted firmly to the engine block for a good earth. I also am assuming that the earth
strap , Engine to body work , is in good condition , clean and firmly attached ( passenger side of engine block low down by engine mount ).

Having eliminated these and Roy's suggestions if the problem is still there then it could be the solenoid or the ignition switch possibly.
Bob

[bmcecosse]

All very confusing - the Ign lights should be on at first key position - yet you say they come on when you turn the key to 2nd position?? And the 'big end' buzzes ?? You got me there... Big ends are either silent - or they rattle.... So - have you wired in the new solenoid EXACTLY the same as the old one you removed ?

[ianmack]

The buzzing when you try to start sounds like the solenoid not closing properly. This is usually caused by a poor connection in its wiring circuit or a flat battery. A faulty ignition switch is possible but not common.

[Dr Dan]

All very confusing - the Ign lights should be on at first key position - yet you say they come on when you turn the key to 2nd position?? And the 'big end' buzzes ?? You got me there... Big ends are either silent - or they rattle.... So - have you wired in the new solenoid EXACTLY the same as the old one you removed ?

Thanks.
Yes, I'm pretty sure I have. It's a new Lucas-type that has an extra left hand very thin connector that my old one hasn't.
I had to extend the started cable (which was helpfully encased in earth wire but with a blue strip of electrical tape at the end) - because it was corroded and very short, literally having tension when connected.

So: "blue" to the right small connector, red (from loom) to the left, i.e. straight to the battery.

I can only describe it as if the ignition switch had come down a notch. Ignition on -> dead. Ignition turned further (as if to start) -> ignition light (and e.g. headlights come on).

But as key has nothing to do with lights (hence "you've left your lights on, mate") it can't be the ignition.

Will troubleshoot solenoid when there's some DAYLIGHT tomorrow.

This is the new solenoid. Are they any good? If yes, I can concentrate on the wiring.

[frame][/frame]

[Dr Dan]

A thought. This solenoid came with no instructions of course, but is this the correct wiring?

...or am I being thicker than a whale omelette??


[frame][/frame]

[bmcecosse]

Yes - you have it wrong - swap the main connections. The extra small Lucar is for a ballast ignition - ignore it.

[Dr Dan]

Thanks a lot.
I had it right the first time, but there were obviously other connectors still dirty.
Then I read about someone switching them over (which did the trick for him) & did the same...

D

[mike.perry]

The earlier starter solenoids had a push button between the two screw terminals which make it easier to start the engine from under the bonnet.
My theory is that the switch was deleted because people were standing in front of the car, starting it in gear and running themselves over

[Dr Dan]

Is this the correct wiring?

[frame][/frame][/quote]


I was told I had the main connections the wrong way round (I assumed battery -> solenoid -> starter).

But my diagram is correct insofar as the bolt closest to the bulkhead connects to the starter, which is a bit of a tangle but it works.

I had forgotten to reconnect the black cable attaching to the the wide connector (not seen on diagram) on the bolt nearest the front.

Now the headlights and ignition come on, but there is no response from turning the key to start.

Battery is charged, everything is earthed I think...

Only other thing I can think is that (a) indicator stalk failed just before this started & I've replaced it, (b) some months ago I wanted to replace some dashboard switches and started unscrewing the ignition switch when I decided it was more fiddly than I thought and ran out of time. Maybe I damaged the ignition switch then ?

[bmcecosse]

The solenoid MUST be earthed to a good clean surface. Your wiring seems to be a mess - all wrong colours you are describing. The extra terminal on the connector to the starter is NOT to be used. Quick check - short a screwdriver across the two large terminals - does it spin and start ?

[andy.pointeer]

Please see photo below, it shows my soleniod connections, which apart from the alternator loom I have, does match your layout in picture above.
.
[frame][/frame]
.
So I think you have your connections correct. As suggested try try a short across large terminals to see if starter motor spins.

If the motor spins and as you have a new soleniod, assume soleniod should work OK.
You will need to check there is power to the soleniod, either check white/red wire with meter or lamp to earth and turn key. You may then have to work back to the ign switch to find problem.

[Dr Dan]

Thanks Andy. Your photo is really helpful. I'll do some cleaning where the solenoid bolts in and check power from the ignition cable.

And yes, randomly coloured wires held together by sellotape are a right pain!

Best,
D

[bmcecosse]

Don't necessarily assume that new solenoid is working - there have been poor reports of the aftermarket 'square' solenoids.

[Dr Dan]

I tried shorting the large terminals. The motor turned a few times (lots of sparks) now nothing
Battery reads 12V but my multimeter only goes up
To 10A.

A) charge battery?
B) replace/piggy back old solenoid?
C) eat humble pie & take to garage ...?

I need Moggie on the road

[bmcecosse]

The battery is flat! Charge it - or start the engine on the handle.....

[Dr Dan]

The battery is flat! Charge it - or start the engine on the handle.....

Thanks. You've been my Occam' Razor on this one ! Me and my car crash of ideas (!) - "maybe if I change the seat covers it will start"

D

[bmcecosse]

Hahaha - I like to keep it Simples....