Morris Minor Owners Club

My son and I have just replaced the head gasket on the 1275 engine (Marina) fitted in our 1971 Traveller and when we refilled with coolant we noticed that it is steadily dripping from a point on the joint at the front corner, just above the engine number plate below plug no. 1. There are no leaks from anywhere else.

The car has been under restoration and has just come back from Woodies in Sussex, having had a completely new wood frame fitted. The only reason we replaced the gasket was that the engine oil appeared to be emulsified with water and there were rust spots on some parts of the rocker gear. There was also a lot of gunk in the rocker cover. Taking advice from a local mechanic, we went ahead and carried out the gasket change.

In removing the head we were careful to follow the sequence described in the manual and have replaced it the same way, torqued down to the recommended 40 lb ft. There seemed to be contradictory advice about whether the new gasket should have a smear of oil or grease before fitting, so we decided to fit the gasket, which seemed to be made of some sort of fibre material, 'dry'.

We are reluctant to run the engine in this condition. Does this very localised leak indicate that the head needs skimming, or is there something I can do to stop the leak without having it skimmed?

Never had to change a head gasket on a car engine before, so maybe I've missed something.

The same thing happened to me once. I would retorque it to 42 lbf after the first heat cycle.

You should have used a copper faced gasket - yes thin wipe of grease both sides, and torque to 44 ft lbf. And again after the first heat cycle. It's not going to heal up - so pull the head and check for flatness of head and block surfaces - and spotlessly clean of course.

ive had this happen with a cooper gasket , im using composite now and no more leaks

Thanks for the info. Might just replace with a copper gasket. That's next weekend lined-up, then!

No harm in trying cranking this one down to 44 ft lbf - but I doubt it will help.

Pre 1975 1275cc engines - the cylinder head torque is 40/42 ft/lb.
Post 1975 1275cc engines - improved cylinder head studs with better flanged based nuts were fitted to the 1275cc Marina/Ital and the studs can be identified as such as they have either a pointed/cone top end, a dimpled end or stamped with a 'Y' on the end - if they are they should be torqued to 50 lb/ft.
If the studs fitted are as above torque to 50 ft/lb before doing anything and see what happens. That extra torque may just cure the problem.
There is nothing wrong in using a fibre composite head gasket if fitted correctly and torqued down to the correct torque and tightened in the correct sequence.
Some fibre/composite gaskets should not be greased - you should look to the fitting instructions for the head gasket for advice as to grease or not.
My preference is not to grease fibre/composite head gaskets (or copper type for that matter) and just fit/use dry.
Phil

I wouldn't grease a fibre gasket either - but then I wouldn't use one in the first place !

philthehill wrote:Pre 1975 1275cc engines - the cylinder head torque is 40/42 ft/lb.
Post 1975 1275cc engines - improved cylinder head studs with better flanged based nuts were fitted to the 1275cc Marina/Ital and the studs can be identified as such as they have either a pointed/cone top end, a dimpled end or stamped with a 'Y' on the end - if they are they should be torqued to 50 lb/ft.
If the studs fitted are as above torque to 50 ft/lb before doing anything and see what happens. That extra torque may just cure the problem.
There is nothing wrong in using a fibre composite head gasket if fitted correctly and torqued down to the correct torque and tightened in the correct sequence.
Some fibre/composite gaskets should not be greased - you should look to the fitting instructions for the head gasket for advice as to grease or not.
My preference is not to grease fibre/composite head gaskets (or copper type for that matter) and just fit/use dry.
Phil

Thank you. It's too dim in my garage to clearly work on the engine on winter evenings, but I will have a close look at the weekend.

Whilst studs are on the agenda - the improved cylinder head studs fitted to the 1275cc MG Midget/Sprite are stamped with a No: 22 on their tops and they should also be torqued to 50 lb/ft.

I would be wary of cranking down more than 44 ft lbf. Remember - the studs rely on 3/8 UNC threads in the cast block,and these can sometimes be a 'bit loose' on older blocks, and it may be that the later A+ blocks had a bit more metal to grip the studs. Certainly the 1275 blocks are taller and possibly thicker. There may be a risk of pulling a stud out of the earlier 'small bore' blocks. Take care!

Whilst I agree that care should be taken when torqueing down the head if the studs and nuts are as described above there will be no problem with 50 lb/ft - but I would recommend that the nuts are torqued down to 50 lb/ft progressively and not all in one go.
The fitment of the studs and nuts as described above was (and still is) a recommended upgrade to those engines not so fitted; and was the way to go before the availability of ARP studs/bolts.
I have used the studs and nuts as described above on 948cc/998cc engine and 1275cc/1380cc & 1400cc engines and all set to 50 lb/ft with no problems encountered.
There is more than enough metal in the top of the block on the 948cc/998cc/1275cc engines whether they be 'A' or 'A' Plus.
My 1380cc 'A' Plus block has been seriously decked and fitted with ARP studs (with the same length UNC threads) at a similar torque.
If you do take the head off - take the studs out and chamfer the edges of the holes in the block as per the diagram below.
Make sure that the head studs are screwed fully into the head. I always run a used (slightly blunt) 3/8" UNC bottom/3rd tap down the threads to clean the threads. If a tap is unavailable use a 3/8" UNC stud with a small flat or vertical 'V' slot filed on and the length of the UNC threads. Make sure to clean out any resulting crud from the stud holes.[frame][/frame]

I have what appears to be exactly the same problem. I fitted a new copper faced gasket to newly machined block and head and torqued to 40 lbs (using a Halfords torque wrench). I filled with water and was just getting ready to fill with oil when I noticed a damp area where the engine number is fixed. I dabbed at it and realised there was a tiny trickle running along the edge of the gasket and then down the side of the block. I re-torqued to 45 lb but this made absolutely no difference. I have obviously since drained the coolant and removed the head and gasket but on inspection I can’t see any problem. I have checked the head to see if I can see any distortion but I’ve only got a 300mm steel rule and feelers and my checks are inconclusive to my mind. I will take the head back to the engineers that did the job for them to check. However if there is any more wisdom out there I would be grateful for any advice, especially as my issue is so similar to the original post back in November. One thought I have is the torque wrench may be incorrect especially as the marking intervals are very small and adjustment is by screwing in or out with one rotation making about 5 lbs change.

Make sure the water is not trickling from the bypass hose or the bypass stub pipe that threads into the head. It is possible for it to leak from there but end up near the engine number plate. I had this issue and it was rather annoying. It was caused by a bypass stub pipe that had an incorrect (but very similar to correct) thread. You might want to try the better quality copper head gasket from Minispares. It is an upgraded version of the no longer available Payen gasket. This is the 1098 gasket: https://www.minispares.com/gug702506hg- ... minispares

If you’re concerned your torque wrench is inaccurate maybe borrow one? Halfords have a no quibble lifetime guarantee on some of their tools. Before storage you should always set the torque wrench to its lowest marked setting taking tension off the spring to preserve accuracy.

Stephen

"especially as my issue is so similar to the original post back in November. "
That's November 2015
But Stephen's answers are still relevant .

If you do not torque the 1275cc Marina/Ital head studs to 50 lbf ft then you are leaving yourself open to coolant leaks. You must also use the revised stud tightening procedure which is different to the 1098cc & 948cc procedure. A Morris Marina workshop manual is a good buy. The revised procedure is set out in the Marina workshop manual.
If you do not have the later head studs as identified in my previous posts then 40 lbf ft is just about acceptable but it is better if you have the later studs with flanged nuts and set to 50 lbf ft.
The improved studs and flanged nuts with increased torque setting were introduced to improve the hold and seal between the head and the block because of these very problems. The Cooper S went one step further and added an extra stud (at the rear of the head) and a bolt (next to the thermostat housing). That bolt should only be torqued to 25lbf ft as the thickness of the block above the water pump is quite thin. The bolt is usually replaced with a stud but still torqued to 25lbf ft.
Make sure that there is no pull up around the head studs where they enter the block. Countersinking the stud holes in the block is a good idea.
Ignore the torque setting in the diagram below - the diagram is to show the revised tightening procedure.

svenedin wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2026 3:57 pm Make sure the water is not trickling from the bypass hose or the bypass stub pipe that threads into the head. It is possible for it to leak from there but end up near the engine number plate. I had this issue and it was rather annoying. It was caused by a bypass stub pipe that had an incorrect (but very similar to correct) thread. You might want to try the better quality copper head gasket from Minispares. It is an upgraded version of the no longer available Payen gasket. This is the 1098 gasket: https://www.minispares.com/gug702506hg- ... minispares

If you’re concerned your torque wrench is inaccurate maybe borrow one? Halfords have a no quibble lifetime guarantee on some of their tools. Before storage you should always set the torque wrench to its lowest marked setting taking tension off the spring to preserve accuracy.

Stephen

Thanks for the replies chaps. I’ve now sorted the problem which was maybe not a problem at all but my missing an obvious leak point perhaps. Just to explain, I installed a mini spares copper gasket following your post Stephen, and following advice from the engineers who did the engine machining, I used a smear of Wellseal on both faces before torquing down to 40 lbsft. I’ve never used anything on a copper gasket in the past but he was very persuasive. I crossed everything and filled with water. Damp patch appeared. Dash it I said! I again tweaked the water temperature sensor (I had done this first time round). Started the engine after the usual cranking without electrical connection and she ran beautifully. After warming it up and cooling I re-rorqued the head and was surprised by the additional movement. However no water leakage. I can’t be certain but I have a strong suspicion that the first time could have been the temperature sensor but I have no way of knowing for sure. I think the point of learning for me was don’t discount the possibility it could be something obvious.
I also borrowed a torque wrench of a different style which was much more positive and used that. Also the advice re releasing spring tension was handed down to me when I first used one a lot of years back and surely still holds true, so thanks again.
Stewart

Glad to hear it's all sorted now. Happy motoring!

Wellseal is good stuff and I have to admit that I have used it once in a place that is very inaccessible (gearbox front plate gasket which is inside the bell housing). With all of the sealants my main concern with them is the mess they leave next time the job has to be done and/or making the joint very difficult to separate. Wellseal is shellac and it softens with methylated spirits and is even more easily removed with dry cleaning fluid (perchloroethylene). Nonetheless, if you have take the head off in future you may be in for quite a job.

Stephen