Fog/Spot wiring...

[Pab_Moggy]

Evening moggyites, as the title suggests I'm looking to install fog & spot lights. I have many questions but I'll try to keep the initial post short & precise.

I know some consider adorning the front of your car with an array of lamps is silly but this is something I'm doing out of necessity. I'll be doing a lot of long distance driving in the near future & with winter fast approaching I just want to take some safety precautions as I'll be using a lot of minor & country roads.

So basically my questions are regarding installing the wiring and configuration of lights. I've seen wiring kits available online but I'm not too convinced of how adaptable they would be for my needs.

Configuration wise I'm thinking a 3 position toggle for the fogs (off, rear, front & rear). As for spots I'm unsure whether to go for wiring them into a switch so they can be used independently of main beam so long as side lights are on, or wire them into the high beam?

Any input or advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks guys...

[bmcecosse]

First off - do you already have decent halogen headlights ?? They surely give enough light for any sane road driving? Secondly - you will need an alternator. The 'fogs' will rarely be used, and modern halogens with sharp cut-off work very well in 'fog' anyway - and 'spots' (surely 'long range''?) must be wired through Main beam - so you will need a relay for them.

[chickenjohn]

They don't have to be wired through main beam. I did some re-wiring on a customers car where a separate switch was installed to trigger the relay which drew power directly from the battery via a fuse. That way you only have one wire going from the switch to relay, which can be mounted near the battery live terminal, and wires going to the spots/fog lights.

[bmcecosse]

I believe they must go out when the headlights 'dip' -unless they are set so low that they don't dazzle - in which case - not much point!

[mike.perry]

I have a pair of Wipac Quadoptic headlights with a pair of Lucas Silver Saber fog lights wired through the dip switch on my Series MM to give extra light around rural bends. Heavy duty wires are used from the light switch to the dip switch and the C39 dynamo keeps up with the demands (just). I have an ammeter to check on the demands of the electrics.

[neilmorey]

I think that the 3 way switch should be wired as off, front only, front & rear. That is certainly the way my modern car is wired, well CANBUS configured if not physically wired that way.

Similar to BMC's comment, I also understand that rear fog should only come on when headlamps are on. Think fronts can work with sidelights or headlights.

[bmcecosse]

Front and rear 'fogs' can only be used in 'fog or falling snow', and yes with sidelights. Front fogs can be used with headlights in clear air. Front 'spots' must not dazzle - or must extinguish (or dip themselves) when the headlights are dipped. But as earlier - none are necessary if decent Halogen headlights are fitted ! So much easier - no alternator required - and no ugly clutter on the front of the car. Win win win situation!

[mike.perry]

You are of course entitled to your opinion but I like a bit of clutter on the front of my car! The reversing light ad rear fog lghts are operated through the side light switch to avoid accidentally leaving them on, and are fairly discretely positioned under the rear bumper

[chickenjohn]

Fog lights don't form part of the MOT test as they are an accessory. So you can wire them how you like.

[bmcecosse]

As long as they don't cause dazzle...

[Pab_Moggy]

Hi guys, apologies for delay I've been away for a while. Thanks for the advice & ideas. I think I'll just be going for fogs now, rather than fogs and spots. Won't be going down the alternator route just yet, they'll rarely be used so hopefully shouldn't cause too much strain.

Switching wise I think it'll be off/rear/front and rear, as that's the way every modern I've driven works.

I'm not sure yet about the wiring into side lights/main beam. I doubt they'd be getting used whiteout sidelights, but I guess it'll come down to which ever is simplest layout. The less connections the better really.

[bmcecosse]

i do believe rear fog warnings are worth having (if you ever intend to drive your Minor in 'fog') - remember they need a warning light - and yes only when the headlights are on, is the rule.

[Pab_Moggy]

Head lights or side lights, as surely you're not meant to use your head lights in the fog...

[bmcecosse]

So - you would drive blindly into fog without headlights on? Madness!! Moderns have the rear fog warnings wired through the the headlights - I think some go off when Main beam is selected - but they are on with dipped. I do believe they are not permitted with just the 'side' lights on.

[aupickup]

my bmw mini has a separate switch for the rear fog light

[SteveClem]

Dipped headlights in fog, I was told in 1974...

[bmcecosse]

Dennis - I doubt it comes on unless your headlights or front 'fogs' are already on.

[mike.perry]

In the early days of Morris Minors headlights had a very poor lens design which scattered light all over the place, particularly in fog. The more elderly of us will remember the urban smog in the 50s and early 60s before the Clean Air Act when the driver had to hang his head out of the window to find the centre white line. Front fog lights were designed with a much improved beam pattern and a sharp beam cut off which enabled the driver to see the kerb, but only if the headlights were switched off.
Modern headlights are more effective than the old fog lights in reduced visibility. I therefore believe that front fog lights are a complete waste of time on a modern car and are only fitted to fill in the circular hole on each of side the car and to distinguish the super delux from the delux.
Rear fog lights. At night in most foggy condtions ordinary tail lights can be seen from an adequate distance and rear fog lights cause unecessary glare. In dense fog rear fog lights are necessary. In daylight fog tail lights are totally useless but how many people think to turn on their rear fog lights, or even their headlights? The same applies to driving in heavy rain, how many drivers switch on their rear fogs when overtaking a truck on the motorway when visibility ahead (and behind) is totally obscured by spray

[MikeNash]

A few thoughts, Pab,
For some 5-7 years I've run 2 spotlights and 2 fog lights on the front of my '63 Trav without trouble and with complete success. Here, in the "Hampshire Highlands" you need all the light you can get as not only are the lanes very narrow and twisty but low cloud is common - a bit like very windy fog. And having some old 1970/80s Raydiot/Lucas/Wipac accessories in the garage roof seemed a waste. The resultant lights are better than those of our 2014 Peugeot 5008 for all driving conditions.

Firstly, I changed my headlights from the original(?) sealed beam units (which seem to last forever) to cheap halogen separate bulb types using (I think) the 55/60 watt bulbs. That alone is a great improvement and well worth doing.

Secondly, The spots are wired in directly to the main beam circuit (using "double" type bullet connectors), the reasoning being that when I want full beam, by definition, I want all the light I can get. Thirdly, the fogs are separately switched so they can be independently operated when required. (Mine are the old fashioned yellow light type.) They give a wide shallow beam which with a bit of care can spread light down and across the road to illuminate both road edges without offense to on-comers.

All bulbs are of 55 watt consumption. HOWEVER, I do recommend you wire them in with appropriate fuses and consider using relays; my system has worked very well but electrically "I'm getting away with it".

Finally, don't worry about having only a dynamo; you don't need an alternator for this whatever others say! It'll provide enough juice to power it all, BUT I do strongly urge you to fit an ammeter so you'll be warned when to dump some electrical load when you need the charge. (Oil pressure gauges are probably the most important of instruments but the ammeter is by far the useful!)

Regards, MikeN.

[aupickup]

Dennis - I doubt it comes on unless your headlights or front 'fogs' are already on.

i can switch the rear fog on or off at will independently if the front fogs are on or off