Joachims brake disaster

[minijojo]

got fresh TÜV (MOT) for Miss Sophie and all was fine i thought……
She is a 61 2-door Saloon with a 1098 ccm engine
One day before the final registration the brakes failed and i found a oily mark behind the left front wheel. Bought 2 brake cylinders, gave them to my technician because he has another thing to do. Both for the wrong side…… he changed everything inside the cylinders and fixed all together. Two day later the same disaster. Now i bought two cylinders for the right and two for the left side. This time i got the parts i ordered. They are the same size as the installed one, the one for the 8“ drums.
Dismantle the brake i found the adjusters are not fixed as they should, the slot showed to the brake plate. I found one brake lining was not fixed to the brake shoe on the whole surface.
i thought, no matter, order new bake shows.
Just to be sure i got the brake drum off a second time to see wether it are 7“ or 8“ drums.
Some of you might laugh now, it are 7“ Drums! (its a 61 Minor)
So what to do now?
Now i got many questions.
Are the brake plates the same for 7“ or 8“ Drums?
If that is right, i think the best way is to order 2 new 8“ Drums and 8“ Brake shoes.
if not what whould be the best way to fix this…..
One thing i learned i will never give jobs away wich i am able do to myself.
a great evening all together
Joachim

[minijojo]

just had a look at some suppliers sides. It seems to me that there are the 8" brake plates installed, because the 900er brake cylinders got other fixing points. is it possible that someone fixes the 7" drums on a 8" brake installation? The inside diameter of the drum is something by 17,8 cm thats nearer to 7" (17,78cm) as to 8" (20,32cm)
a confused Joachim

[martin418]

you need to change the back plates , drums ,shoes ,adjusters and return springs , the cylinders are the same , a nice straight forward swap , the adjusters look the same but the 8'' ones are slightly bigger , the 7'' fit but the adjustment wont work

[bmcecosse]

As above - same cylinders are used on both 7" and 8 " brakes. But be SURE to get the original' type cylinders (sometimes known as 'genuine') and NOT the useless reproduction cylinders. The later 8" brakes are MUCH better and a well worthwhile upgrade - especially as you have the 1098 engine. It would not be possible to fit 7" shoes etc on 8" backplates. These look like 8" brakes but you would need to check. He says UK only....but maybe you can persuade him.... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MORRIS-MINOR- ... 4af1dc72f4

[mike.perry]

If you have 7 in front drums then the fronts will be the same size as the backs, if you have 8 in front brakes then the fronts will be bigger than the backs
Front shoes will have a cut out on all four shoes in the set to fit the adjusters, back shoes will have a cut out on only two shoes

[minijojo]

good morning and thank you all for your informations.
The main thing i did not know is, that the brake cylinders for 7“ and 8“ are the same.
So back to my problem. The best way to fix, is buying new 7“ brake shoes. The Cylinders are new, the backplate is in very good condition and the drums too.
I now know how to upgrade to 8“ and will do that when there is trouble with brakes again. Hope not in near time
once again thank you all for your help
Joachim

[bmcecosse]

ebay seller confirms these are 8" drums/backplates etc - a good buy if you can get him to ship them to you.

[minijojo]

i am still not satisfied with my front brakes.
What is the correct position for the springs?
First i tried the "outer one" on the two holes side. Seems ok for me so the cylinders got a little start pressure. I put the adjusters in on minimum position. When i put on the drum, it was hard to turn it. and there is no possibility to adjust something.
Second, tried the "inner" holes of both break shoes. The springs are not strained after inserting the adjusters in minimum position. The drum could be put on softly and could be turned easy. After adjusting it feels all is ok now.
The springs are new for 7" setup and the break shoes also.
The first seems to me that the springs push the break shoes a little out center. So maybe this could be the reason for the hard tuning?
The second seems to me not really ok, because the springs are only under tension after the adjustment.
So what could be or did i do wrong?
One other thing i don't understand. Why have i to take the wheels off to adjust the brakes? A hole in the backplate would be better to adjust. Or is there a reason for that i don't know?

[panky]

Are you putting the springs on the back of the shoes, like this

[bmcecosse]

The early cars had a hole in the wheel - to allow adjustment without wheel removal. Was VERY handy on road rallies ! Hole in the backplate would not be much use - how would you ever see the adjuster.... Drill a hole in the wheel if you like ! And yes - springs go on the back - to help hold the shoes against the backplate. You need to turn the drum and centre the shoes before attempting the adjustment - but DO NOT press the pedal till they are set - because that leaves a light pressure in the hydraulic system which holds the shoes in 'light contact' with the drums and will give a false adjustment.

[minijojo]

thanks for the picture. I now see, the springs are not fixed equal. For this is the right side of the car the spring showing to the front should be fixed in the inner hole and the spring to the back fixed in the outer hole.
So this might be the solution to my problem.
And yes i put the springs on the back, but both times both springs fixed the same way. I marked the fixing positions on your photo, just to be sure i understand it right.
Thank you, will try that next time. Its good to be a member of this forum. I got a lot of information i didn't find in any book from your answers and the other contributions.[frame][/frame]

[bmcecosse]

That picture is NOT correct - the springs go on same way on each shoe..... Seriously.....

[minijojo]

Hi BMC,
thanks for your advice. But what ist the correct position for the springs when they should be fixed the same way? the inner hole or the outer?

[bmcecosse]

Outer!!

[panky]

Apologies, that's how they where found when I took the drums off for the first time to fit the Wolseley ones.
This is how they are fitted now.



Back plates obviously not in the correct orientation when the picture was taken.

[bmcecosse]

Yes - but that's with the larger (truly excellent!) 9" W brakes - and you have used the inner holes. No harm in that - as long as both the same...

[panky]

They work fine and seemed to sit better in that position but hopefully I haven't confused Joachim too much with the pics

[minijojo]

no panky, you did´t confuse me.
see at this way. We discussed all possible ways to fix the springs and at least we found out how to fix them. That is what i like this forum for.

[les]

The important thing is to keep the coil part of the springs away from the part of the cylinder that expands when the brakes are applied, the straight part of the spring should cover that area.

[panky]

Thanks Joachim, I've learned something too