Morris Minor Owners Club

Anyone experienced peculiar timing issues when fitting Electronic Ignition?
I fitted an Aldon Distributor to match desired advance curve – all was well on points.

However, I then fitted electronic ignition, Aldon Igniter, to match the Distributor. Car runs well, but out of curiosity I “strobed” the timing, and nothing lined up. But, No2 cylinder lined up with timing marks – sort of but not quite. Engine certainly ran OK.

Aldon were helpful, and suggested that timing had slipped. Well, perhaps, but it should not run 90 degrees out.
Any observations or previous experiences out there?

Different and unrelated issue. Starter motor Bendix fractured and parts jammed between flywheel and bell housing, and stopped engine dead.

Any one experienced that?

Finally, Rear Main Oil seal conversion – where can I source seals as I have been on back order for some weeks now.

Thanks and Happy Motoring

Not seen the first two. Rear oil seal conversion is a waste of time and money. Plenty of posts on here about it. The design, at least of the one that I tried, makes it impossible to obtain a proper seal. Cancel the order! If you have an oil leak, then it is because of (a) a worn engine and (b) excessive crank case pressure. Check the breathing first.

As above - the rear seal is a complete and utter waste of time and money.... If the rear main is leaking - fix the problem, not the symptom... Good breathers - connected to the inlet system, and if the engine is worn (producing blow-by fumes) - overhaul it!! If the engine runs well - don't worry about the strobe....I have one - never used it in over 40 years ! Aldon are talking nonsense to suggest timing could have slipped to anything like that extent.... The starter - has the engine been kicking back on cold starts against the starter ?? This easily breaks the bendix - retard slightly till there is no kicking back. Could also have been loose starter bolts ? Or - it's just worn out...

If you turn the engine over by hand and bring #1 piston to TDC on compression, do the timing marks line up?

I will back up the oil seal kits, waste of time effort and money. I ignored advice, and had a crack at fitting one during my engine rebuild over last winter.

Rebuilding the engine, putting the backplate and seal holder on, my seal assembly fouled on the oil pump cover. There is no way I could gain the required movement to centre it and the seal to the crank. It would have lasted five seconds I reckon before it would be pushing oil out everywhere, which would have really impressed me once everything was back together. I hasten to add that I am an engineer as well, so I thought I stood a fighting chance of getting it to fit.

I removed it and sent it back, not fit for purpose. Reverting to the scroll seal I centred the eyebrow up to the crank with 2 thou clearance from the crank, and so far I have no oil at rear.

http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=59900
the solution maybe

Yes I read this, in principal its a very good idea to have the lip seal there and it should work.

It is re engineering that these off the shelf kits need, they are nearly there but not quite. Looks like someone has it worked out.

If I could have got the thing centred and fitted properly I would have got away without the spacer

Be interesting to see if anyone fits ones and reports honestly. I am running factory style now and hope not to be rummaging around in that area for a while now. So far no oil but I am still running in and only done about 70 miles.

The 'solution' is to have an engine in decent condition, with little or no 'blow by' on the pistons - and good crankcase breathing connected to the inlet system! There is absolutely NO NEED for these 'rear seal' modifications.......

as regard the timing just turn the dizzy till it starts to pink then back off a bit its the best you will get as the fuel is so much different thease days ive done 2 morrises like this and had no problems

Well ,.another spanner in the works. the same guy at Tom Roys ,and he's been at it for as long as I remember,is of the opinion that it is better to make sure that the crankcase is well vented to atmosphere, and not to the inlet system. His logic being that if there is a substantial blow past then the mixture must be altered and contaminated with burnt gasses and oil mist. He believes that to compensate and get a good tickover the mixture needs to be weakened,but then at high revs its too weak and can cause valves to be burnt,and poor running. He believes that the only benefit is upper cylinder lubrication I can see his logic it this but not sure if I can accept it.

It's fine...the amount of oil mist drawn in is minimal - and it reduces the amount of oil being blown up past the rings into the combustion chamber! See the recent post where oil consumption (and leakage) was drastically reduced when good breathing was installed.... And of course - venting to atmosphere incurs risk of breathing in the carcinogenic fumes...... These stories from TR make me wonder about them....

Thank you all for input. Very interesting reading the feedback.

Rear oil seals have turned up. I have used them with success on various rebuilt engines with success: probably “belt and braces” and never had clutch contamination. Which of course could be that a decent engine rebuild negates the need for these seal kits. I suspect that thinner viscosity oil may course some problems, and do use Castrol 20/50.
“If you turn the engine over by hand and bring #1 piston to TDC on compression, do the timing marks line up?” Yes. And engine runs but will not strobe up. Due to modern fuels I agree that timing is more buy bring to pinking and then back off. Unfortunately, even fuel from same source varies in “anti-knock” and has been a challenge with my old motor cycles: and even Land Rovers.

But, I suspect it was perhaps over advanced but would not produce adequate power (lights on and Alternator loaded at tick over stalled the engine) without “strobing” to what turned out to be No 2. Sadly engine now completely dead, and suspect burnt block/ head again. Have yet to compression test and investigate. I have had valves sticking in the guides on 3 and 4 cylinders, symptomatic of local overheating. Car is not thrashed, driven usually by my wife on daily local commute, who unfortunately is not mechanically sensitive, and would not hear pinking anyway. I know she filled up, and car died within 2 days, and strongly suspect indifferent fuel. It was also unreliable to start – probably unrelated, but I do not rust electronic ignition systems.

“Well ,.another spanner in the works. the same guy at Tom Roys ,and he's been at it for as long as I remember, is of the opinion that it is better to make sure that the crankcase is well vented to atmosphere, and not to the inlet system. His logic being that if there is a substantial blow past then the mixture must be altered and contaminated with burnt gasses and oil mist. He believes that to compensate and get a good tick over the mixture needs to be weakened, but then at high revs its too weak and can cause valves to be burnt, and poor running. He believes that the only benefit is upper cylinder lubrication I can see his logic it this but not sure if I can accept it.”

I believe this has merit from previous experience as I had problems with mixture throughout the rev range when had a tappet cover vent via gauze filter to air cleaner. My solution was varied:
1. Fit vent direct to atmosphere and blank the original inlet to air cleaner. This was because the gauge blocked unprogressively with gunge, particularly during the cooler winter months.
2. Car was getting to temperature swiftly, but oil was not and plenty of condensate emulsion evidence in valve cover. I fitted from a Metro Automatic the oil/ water intercooler that fits between canister oil filter and housing. No condensation at all now.

“ The starter - has the engine been kicking back on cold starts against the starter ?? This easily breaks the bendix - retard slightly till there is no kicking back. Could also have been loose starter bolts ? Or - it's just worn out”

Interesting and had not considered that. Confirms my dodgy timing suspicions. And over advance would cause the other results.

I will investigate and post when solution found. And I thought I knew A Series engines……
Thanks Again.

The best place for the oil fume is in the combustion chambers..... Don't worry about it affecting mixture - it's not going to make a significant difference.

Investigations after Compression Test discovered, as expected, Head Gasket burnt through between 3 and 3 cylinders. Cleaned, checked fitted and fixed.

No doubt caused by wildly advanced ignition timing. But, no pinking evident.

Have not worked out compression ration, but 180 psi compression test without oil added to bores, could perhaps be a little high due to heavily re-worked head.

Timing reset. But interestingly, car runs at up to 90 degrees out, both advanced and retarded. I have reset to firing at TDC, and whilst engine is smooth it is a tad don on power. Will continue to test run and see if I can advance to recommended for distributor 10 degrees BTDC: without any pinking.

So, whole host of problems, particularly started motor failure and head gasket, caused by my poor timing.

Live and Learn

Appears to be sorted and main user enjoys on her daily commute.
Timing was badly out that created problems.
Also plugs too hard and occaisonal misfire until cleared: sorted with better plugs.
And carb needle changed to AH. Vast improvedment over an M.
Still learning.....