Morris Minor Owners Club

got the moggy back today
shes had new cross members back and front
2.. two new tie plates .
3..one engine mount
4..two new chasie legs l/r
5.alternator fitted
6..new iner wing on front n/s
and we got here back home and fitted new brakes incl cilinders
but we just cannot get the air out of the system have checked for leeks and everthing is fine but can not get a good peddle

please please can anyone help with this problem mmm best regards

PROCKY

Hi Procky,

Did you get the M/C replaced? It could be a leaking M/C....

could be 1 the brake shoes are not adjusted properly, giving excessive pedal travel. the small tumbler screws on each clyinder.
somtheing may have gone wrong with one of the rubbers in masterclyinder. as multi says
i may be inclined to leave it for a little while, driving it on short slow drives for a few miles.
to see if it helps them to settle down, then reblead and reset them
remember to use your hand brake if they fail (master clyinder) completly on a slow drive.

brixtonmorris wrote:remember to use your hand brake if they fail (master clyinder) completly on a slow drive.

Yeah and use engine braking too. If you drive with no footbrake for a distance and just use the handbrake it can fade when it gets hot leaving you with a rather sticky situation (no brakes!) as I found out last weekend when I was driving the Elmobile!

We really need much more info as so many things can go wrong.

1) Did you replace all six wheel cylinders or just some of them? (if so which ones?).
2) Did you ensure that the fluid level in the m/c remained between a half and one inch below the neck when you bled the system?
3) Did you have a firm pedal before undoing any pipes and what happens now when you depress the pedal? Does the pedal go to the floor and can you get some pressure into the system by pumping the brake pedal?
4) Remove the m/c cap - does the fluid level in the master cylinder stay the same and/or do you see bubbles in the fluid when the brake pedal is depressed?
5) Have you adjusted all the snailcam brake shoe adjusters properly as Brixton suggested (full on then one click back)?
6) Are you sure there isn't a leak somewhere? - it's really easy to not tighten one connection properly and not notice the clear fluid squirting out.

to all we replaced all 6 cilinders
and all the new brake shoes had them bled at the morris minor garage
after the new tie plates were fitted so we got home and fitted the new back brakes we have no fluid loss and the brake peddle will pump up after a couple of pump . but if we leave if for a minute or so and press the peddle it goes to the floor and then we have to pump it upone to two
pumps for a good peddle
the giys att the moggy minor center bled them and said they were ok
but as you all know then we did the back brakes when we got home


best regards a very frustrated procky ha ha

Try reversing the car onto a steep drive ,or whatever ,so that the back end is up in the air , so to speak . then give the pedal a big kick ( put a couple of bricks under the wheels - saves you disappearing down the hill !! ). It usually shifts air from tha back of the M/C and ,if you raise the rear end when bleeding - this may help . Old Leyland / BMC dodge !! Arfron

* Ray's top tips on the brakes:

Firstly (as already suggested) check for air bubbles coming back up in the m/c AFTER RELEASING the pedal.
Cam and I wasted a lot of time trying to bleed the Elmobile's brakes as it had not shown bubbles in the m/c, but after all that time the bubbles showed up (bubbles mean the secondary seal is leaking and 99.99% of time this is due to a corroded bore and needs a new m/c).

Secondly - new brake shoes seem to be terrible these days and are not a good fit to the drums - this gives a springy pedal (Obviously you have to centralise the shoe which should happen after a few hard presses of the brakes but after that they are still poor.). The only way I have found to bed the shoes in a short time is to adjust the brakes until you can 'just about' turn the drum using 2 hands. Then after about 20 miles the high spots are taken off the shoes and the wheel will rotate fairly freely.
In this time do not head off at high speed (eg down the motorway) as things will seriously overheat. Also bear in mind that the dragging brakes will create heat so short town journeys with lots of stops are good and dont forget to leave a lot of stopping distance (hot brakes are less efficient).
After they are bedded in, you should almost no dragging, and find that 1 more click gives a completely locked drum.

Thirdly:
Last but probably most important - The rear cylinders can not be bled by just pumping fluid through the bleed nipple. The bleed nipple is on a T-piece from the pipe so you will only bleed the pipe not the cylinder.
To bleed a rear cylinder it needs to be primed. You can do this the hard way or the hard way
Either A or B:
A) Strip it down and fill full of fuid before fitting the pistons, using a plug to keep air out when fittting to the car.
B) The nipple on the T-piece has to be upright to catch air coming out of the cylinder. Remove the drum but leave on the brake shoes and springs - press the pedal to push the piston out untyil the pedal goes hard, then the springs should push it back in smothly (if it doesn't slide straight back by itself it is faulty or the springs are weak so something needs replacing). Repeat this 10 to 20 times then bleed off from the nipple. Repeat again a few times and refit the drum and adjust the brakes to see if you still have excess travel. If so - then recheck #1 and #2 and repeat #3



* This is what I've done many times in the past with good results,
All of this was done in the last week on the Elmobile with great success. The pedal needed 3 presses after fitting new m/c, new rear cylinder some pipes and new front brake shoes and 2 hours of bleeding - after #2 and #3 it now only needs half a press to lock the wheels
Job done.

Urm... Ray.... Fancy doing my brakes??? ....

Thought not...

Nikki, come back and use the Sykes Pickvant brake bleeder - it actually works, unlike your easy-bleed-clone.

I *think* I just did my rear brake in about 10 minutes (excluding the 15 mintes swearing required to undo the bleed nipple). Anyway, they seem pretty darn firm. Don't appear to be leaking, and uh, I dunno, it all seems to be working. I hope. Pray. Mmm.

Yay!
a

Sykes Pickvant brake bleeder - it actually works,

Interesting Kate whats the difference or is it just more efficient ?

Well, Nikkis one didn't work. The one I borrowed off my friend John did work. I.e. I stuck it on the nipple (ooh, err); wiggled the pedal up and down quite a few times and did up the bleed nipple and my brakes were nice and firm. Been out for a drive, and the brakes were pretty darn spiffy

So, I'm impressed!