High tensile steel halfshafts

[jagnut66]

Hi,
About four years ago when I changed over to a 1275 engine I also fitted these, as the feedback I was getting from some places at the time was that the original Minor halfshafts would not be able to cope with the stresses of being mated up to the more powerful engine................
I thought they'd be fit and forget, despite some misgivings about how they were constructed, the originals being all in one and the new ones having a welded seam holding the plate that bolts to the hub in place to the shaft.....................
I seem to have sadly been proven correct. It was their weak spot, and they have both failed.
At four years old they are well past my being able to make a complaint / claim but it does smack to me of lack of quality, especially when you consider how much these things cost!!
So I have now refitted my original halfshafts and will be looking to acquire some spares (just in case). Fortunately I did label them up 'drivers side' and 'passenger side', as I believe they become 'handed' during use. We shall see how long they last............
Below are a couple of pictures of my high tensile ones showing the failed welded seam on each.
I wonder if the lesson will prove to be that I should have saved my money and stuck with the originals, time will tell............
Best wishes,
Mike.
[frame][/frame][frame][/frame]

[panky]

That looks like some pretty rubbish welding, no penetration at all

[The vast minority]

Same old story
Everything modern and aftermarket is garbage (in my opinion)

It's a shame but you just can't buy quality now. All this crap about original half shafts not able to take the load of a bigger engine is nonsense, it's entirely down to how you drive, sure, if you dial in a legfull of revs and dump the clutch you will break things but if you drive as you should there will be no better half shaft than the one from the original set up.

When you are driving along and using the extra torque of a 1275 to progress up hills you are not stressing the half shafts anything like you would be by dumping the clutch with a 1098 and they cope with that! Just forget aftermarket rubbish, fit the originals and drive like a caring enthusiast.

Al

[katy]

Can you not get them rewelded by a reputable shop?

[philthehill]

Personally I would never buy a half shaft if you have to rely on welding to keep it all together.
The half shafts on my Minor which have been subject to hundreds of the most severe standing starts are only standard Minor ones bought new and heat treated before use. The chap who did them many years ago guaranteed them to 178hp.
Thankfully I have got a spare set on the shelf if ever I need to replace one or both
If any thing fails in the transmission it is the diff self disintegrating.
The problem with using standard original half-shafts is their age. Over the years those acceleration and de-acceleration forces mount up and then the shaft can take no more and they fail mainly just at the most inopportune moment.
Half-shafts do become handed (twisted) so must be replaced unless new with a half-shaft from the same side and which has been subject to the same rotational forces.
Moss have new Pt No: ATA7057 @ £109.96 Plus P&P Plus VAT so not cheap.
ESM only do S/H standard @ £25 plus the usual though they do offer an upgraded option Pt No: DIF146C @ £329.90 plus the usual.
Bull Motif do S/H standard @ £29 plus the usual.
If you want to use standard half-shafts and have a heavy foot always keep a couple of spares handy and mark them up N/S & O/S so they do not get put on the wrong side of the axle which will lead to rapid failure of the half-shaft as they do not like being unwound

[bmcecosse]

The broken welding is not unknown. Are the wheel bearings good?? If they have any play, that would be stressing the joint. And yes - it's starting away, especially at an angle (say pulling out of a T junction) that loads up the half shafts. Treat them well and they will be fine. An occasional inspection to check if the splines are twisting may be wise in high stress use.

[IslipMinor]

Where did they come from?

After fitting a Tran-X LSD, I drove 200m to the end of our road, where there is a set of cross-roads, a Stop sign and a climbing LH turn away from the Stop. I accelerated very moderately, cold engine, and there was a click and loss of drive! Normally there would have been a little spin from the LH wheel, as it is very lightly loaded whilst climbing out of the turn. This time the LSD did exactly what it should have done, and transferred the load to the already loaded RH wheel and it was now more than the halfshaft could take.

I found that I could drive very gently (it is a 'Plate' type LSD), so a very, very small amount of drive available, and enough to get me back home.

At the time I had 'toughened' standard halfshafts that had seen many miles on the car, including about 15,000 with the 1380 engine. Without the LSD, one wheel would spin if taking away from a T-junction quickly, particularly RH turns as the drive torque tries to lift the RH side of the axle, but anti-tramp bars and no tramp, that doesn't load up the halfshafts very much.

Subsequently I fitted Peter May's EN24 (£294 + VAT per pair) 'competition' shafts and have had no problems since (~35,000 miles). These EN24 shafts have an end taper and a shrink fitted flange on to the taper, plus a securing nut, just is case. No welding.

Which halfshafts are welded?

[jagnut66]

These are EN 24 high tensile steel from a well known main parts supplier........ not allowed to say on here are we......
They have a securing nut like yours but - as you can see - were welded rather than shrink fitted, as you say yours were.
I'm not going to have them re-welded, as it feels like throwing good money after bad.
I will probably invest in a pair of toughened, as spares, ready for when my originals call time......

[BLOWNMM]

G,day all
A word of caution re second hand axles. BM list them as left and right. ESM makes no reference to left or right.
Cheers Bob

[IslipMinor]

EN24 is a chrome molybdenum 'high strength' 'Engineering' steel and is not 'normally' used in a welded application. When it is, it requires a very specific welding process, without which cracking is very common and even with it in most cases the weld is significantly weaker than the parent material.

Not a process that I would want to see on a halfshaft.

Although the shafts are 4 years old, I do wonder if they were ever 'fit for purpose', which as far as I am aware does not have a time limit?

I bought a number of items from a very well-known performance Mini supplier and had some problems with some of them, which they refused to address, and have never used them since. And never had problems since either!

[madmoggy]

High just been reading with interest this thread.
I am just in the middle of rebuilding my sons 1098 axle.
Am fitting a 3.9 diff/and a pair of s/hand esm h/shalfts which are labelled as handed.
We have some spares as we will be running the car in nostalgic drag racing.
The car has a 1293 A+ marina unit (fresh build) which is not in the car as yet.
Are the comp half shafts worth the cost and would they do the job of standing starts.
The car will not be running on slicks it will be on road tyres.

[philthehill]

Hi
With a 1275cc Marina engine fitted and with the intention to do standing starts as part of drag race (even if it is as you say nostalgic drag racing) I would recommend that you uprate the half-shafts.
Standard half-shafts will not last very long.
You will need to fit Anti-tramp bars to the rear suspension as axle tramp helps to destroy the axle shafts and diff.
Having done hundreds of competition standing starts in my Minor I would not be without the uprated half-shafts or anti-tramp bars.
Phil

[madmoggy]

Thanks , we already have anti tramp bars which I fitted a few weeks ago so hopefully with comp h/shafts we should be good to go.

[bmcecosse]

And surely the choice of a 3.9 final drive is odd?? That's a 'cruising' ratio - and certainly not the best for acceleration!

[madmoggy]

Well as the car is a daily driver the 3.9 diff will do just fine.
The nostaglic drag racing is a bit of fun.
We have a selection of diffs . 3.9/4.2/4.5 so if we feel the need to change we can always pop one of these in.

[bmcecosse]

Ahh - well at least the 3.9 will reduce the stress on the half shafts! But increase the stress on the clutch......

[don58van]

Having done hundreds of competition standing starts in my Minor I would not be without the uprated half-shafts or anti-tramp bars.

Phil

What anti-tramp bars are you using? Home- made?

Don

[philthehill]

Don
The traction bars are home made as they were made and fitted many years ago before the current and similar set ups (but without the rose joints) became available.
The bars themselves are rose jointed at each end. A home made bracket welded to the underside of the bottom spring plate at the rear end and a flat plate bolted either side of the front spring hanger with the rose joint spaced centrally between them.
The bars work very well and I would not be without them.
Phil

[bmcecosse]

7 leaf Traveller rear springs do a good 'anti tramp' job -as well as stiffening up the sloppy rear end nicely!

[philthehill]

A good and very cheap trick is to make up a couple of flat bar clamps to clamp the leaves in front of the axle together to eliminate axle tramp.
Two clamps either side will suffice. I had them fitted to my Minor before the anti tramp bars were fitted and they worked well.
An idea copied by me in the 1960s from the American drag scene and still used today by some participants..
You can alter the spring to clamp resistance by tightening or undoing the nut and bolts.
Phil