Thrust washers

[midget]

Bit worried about my new thrust washers. Just fitted them and the engine is very tight--have to turn with screwdriver across the flywheel bolts to turn with just the centre main cap on. Never had this problem before. They were supplied by machine shop who polished the crank (std) but were made in Israel, apparently.
They look a little thick to me, but have not got old ones to compare ---scrapped by machine shop.
No end float though
Are they supposed to be this tight?

[les]

No, there is a clearance, 003'' I believe. Wait for someone to confirm that figure though.

[philthehill]

Crankshaft end-float should be 0.003" (min) - 0.007" (max).
The crankshaft should rotate through 360 degrees when assembled (with main bearing caps fitted and bolts torqued) into the block without effort and have no stiff points when rotated.
Check that there is no dirt, burrs or machining crud between the backs of the thrust washers and the thrust washer seats and/or the thrust washer and the crank thrust faces.
If the thrust bearings are a bit tight - put a piece of fine (800 min) wet & dry on a piece of flat glass and slowly take a little off the thrust faces until the required clearance is obtained. Using WD 40 as a lubricant is a help.
Always keep the old thrust bearings (provided they are not shot) as they may suit another engine without having to resort to reducing the thickness.[frame][/frame]

Above - myself adjusting the thrust washer thickness to suit an engine using a piece of 800 wet and dry placed on the surface plate and well lubricated with WD 40.
It does no harm to very lightly polish the backs (non thrust side) of the thrust washer to make sure that the surface is flat.

[bmcecosse]

Get round to the machine shop and rake the scrap bin! All as above - there must be 5 thou +/- 2 thou end float. It will take you a while to 'rub' 2 to 3 thou off all your thrusts - if you can't find the old ones, ask them to surface grind 2.5 thou off the BACKS of the thrusts. The crank should spin easily with only the centre main fitted. Quick check though - you have the cap on right way round ?

[midget]

Yes, double checked that immediately I saw a problem. Can't get them wrong really, the centre has to have the bolt hole for the scavenge pick up on the same side, front and rear are even more obvious on an a+.
Is everybody sure that a+ thrusts are the same? They don't seem to sit nicely in the "slots" in the cap--checked for flatness, but seem ok. The engine has done some miles so surely std thrusts should fit easily--they are marked std on the rear.

[philthehill]

The thrust washers for 1275cc engines (either Pt No's ACL2136 or BHM1293 (dependent upon source)) are suitable for either 1275cc Midget, 1275cc Non 'A' Plus and 'A' Plus engines. I have never come across any differences in the thrust washers and I have used the same Pt No: thrust washers in the above engines.
I have also used Midget cranks in 'A' Plus blocks and used the same Pt No: thrust washers.
The main bearing diameters for 1275cc range of engines are all the same @ 2.0012" - 2.0017"
The BL part No: for the upper thrust washer is AEG159.............12V engine.
The BL part No: for the lower thrust washer is AEG160..............12V engine.
You say that the thrust washers are marked standard. Are you sure that they are all standard. Check the thickness of each thrust to confirm.
It sounds as if a bit of fitting work needs to be undertaken in respect of the thrusts supplied.

[Theo_NL]

Bit worried about my new thrust washers. Just fitted them and the engine is very tight--have to turn with screwdriver across the flywheel bolts to turn with just the centre main cap on. Never had this problem before. They were supplied by machine shop who polished the crank (std) but were made in Israel, apparently.
They look a little thick to me, but have not got old ones to compare ---scrapped by machine shop.
No end float though
Are they supposed to be this tight?

I had exactly the same problem with the trust washers (bought at ESM and also made in Israel according the labels). I still had the old ones (0.5 mm thinner), that hardly had any wear, and fitted perfectly.

[bmcecosse]

20 thou thinner !!!!!!!!!! Maybe 0.05 mm thinner ??

[Theo_NL]

20 thou thinner !!!!!!!!!! Maybe 0.05 mm thinner ??

0.05 mm

[midget]

Have checked all for size, and they are all 2.3 mm, HOWEVER, may have found the reason for problem.
One of the cap ones is slightly misshapen when matched up with the others in profile, which tallies with the fact that the block ones are perfect fit.Therefore will order new set tomorrow, but where from? Theo, I assume was talking about 1098 ones(?) from ESM which may have been incorrect, so any suggestions please?
These are King ones part no TW 215CP and from a trusted "old school" machine shop who have been very helpful to me.

As I have your attention--I noticed that the needle roller spigot bearing is "due for renewal" so will order one as well, but how do you remove the old outer piece please? (I am fitting the Ital g/box)

Thanks for interest

[philthehill]

John
I have just measured the thickness of qty 8 1275cc engine crankshaft thrust washers
Qty 6 standard measure:-
2.35mm
2.35mm
2.33mm
2.35mm
2.34mm
2.34mm

qty 2 standard plus 0.003" measure:-
2.42mm
2.45mm

You should be able to re-profile the outer edge of the thrust washer to fit into the main bearing cap and that is what I mean about fitting parts.
Sometimes parts are supplied that should be a straight swop but are not and have to be fettled and fitted.
That is one of the great things about having served an apprenticeship in a garage many years ago when you had to make do and mend and make things fit as they should do.
Here is a link to the Mini Spares site for thrust washers:-

http://www.minispares.com/product/Class ... crankshaft thrust washers.aspx|Back to search

http://www.minispares.com/product/Class ... .aspx|Back to

As regards the first motion shaft bearing it may be possible to fill the bearing with grease and start a snug fitting rod (or old first motion shaft) into the bearing and then give the rod a smart smack and the hydraulics should push the bearing out.

Phil

[midget]

I take your point about fettling to fit Phil, and would gladly attempt this if it were merely the thickness which needed attention, but reprofiling could cause more problems---warping out of shape springs to mind. I think a "different" set from a recommended supplier is my answer. I am not on a time limit but do want to get it right first time.
Have spent a lot of time in the past pulling engines out and refitting repeatedly to correct faults/mods that didn't work

[philthehill]

John
Never had a problem with re-profiling when held between two pieces of alloy in the vice.
You would not want to work on my engines then - very little if anything is standard
Phil

[midget]

Phil, on your link they confuse me by giving many options for product, but do not match my 12V engine no. I assume that I need the ones they have 12H?

[midget]

The difference---note the left bottom edge.


[frame][/frame]

[bmcecosse]

It's just a few strokes with a file - nothing is going to distort...... A piece of dowel rod (valve grind tool handle) is ideal for pushing the crank bush out.

[philthehill]

John
If you follow the Mini Spares links they all come back to Pt No: AEO2136.
If you want the better quality Vandervell ones they are Pt No: VPW41.

As regards your deformed thrust? - if it is only the left outer hand edge a quick file on that edge with a fine file whilst the thrust washer is held between two pieces of alloy will see you home and dry.
Phil

[midget]

Ok, you've convinced me--I'll have a stab at it--but will order a Vandervell set as well.
BMC surely you mean "pull" the part out?

[philthehill]

No - bmc does mean push it out
As I said in my post above - hit the rod and the hydraulics i.e. grease should push the bearing out as the grease cannot go anywhere without pushing the bush out - rod in/bush out
May be a bit more difficult if the needle bearings have come out.

[midget]

Yes hydrualicking, and yes it disintegrated when the rubber seal was disturbed--just the outer case left in.
Think it's gonna need the small chisel