suspension bushes

[meganwilkinson2008]

Hi have been changing suspension bushes to poly and now hit a problem. The pivot which connects to the damper arm appears to be seized solid have tried heat and WD but to no avail.wondered if anyone knows if i could use a hub pulley as the pivot is tapered.The other side came free ok.Will replace pivot as well when i can get it off. Any help would be great have been trying for hours today Many thanks.

[les]

I'm trying to visualize this set up, and I'm thinking you don't need to separate the pivot to replace the bushes?

[bmcecosse]

You DO NOT take that link pin out! The top bushes are easily renewed just by twisting the kingpin off. Raise the kingpin with a jack to get the arm off the rebound stop of course.... And most important to use Poly Urethane bushes on that link - they make a HUGE difference there.

[philthehill]

As bmc says there is no need to remove the top trunnion pivot pin (Pt No: AAA3653) as the bushes can be replaced by twisting and pushing rearwards the top trunnion.
I am surprised that you even managed to get the one trunnion pin out from the damper arm as they usually take at least 4 tons pressure even when using a hydraulic press to remove.

[bmcecosse]

I hate to think what damage may have been done 'trying for hours'....

[meganwilkinson2008]

Ok thanks for all the advice will have another go today.Is it best to loosen the tie bar off to allow a bit more movement ? . The other side just slid off when i unscrewed it so thought i had to do the same this side. thanks guys.

[drivewasher]

Iv'e just changed both my swivel/king pins I got from BullMotiff, they come with both pins so I removed my top pins from damper arms. Just a good blow with a hammer in the right place, the key is buffering the ally arm with another hammer or a prop so it absorbs the full blow when striking it.

I have left the rubber bushes as was and used red rubber grease on the pin making sure it can be turned inside the rubber bush. I have poly bushes but wasn't happy that they locked the pin preventing it turning as they are so tight even with the nut locked slack if you see what I mean. We'll see how it goes.

[alexmcguffie]

This seems to be getting people flared up! You DO need to take the pin out of you want to fit a new one while you are on doing the bushes. What I've done in the past is to take the damper off the car and rest the part of the arm with the pin passing through it on a solid vice and give the other side of it a sharp hit with a hammer. This often shocks the pin loose. If you can find a small puller that will fit, then set that up with plenty of load on it over night and then give the end of it a hit with a hammer the next morning!

[les]

I think the op was assuming the pin had to come out to change bushes, of course if you want to change the pin then that's a different matter. I think you're right about removing the shock absorber and using a solid vice to hit the pin, there is bound to be a strain on the securing bolts otherwise, even if trying to apply an opposite force, that pin doesn't want to move!

[meganwilkinson2008]

Can't thank you enough for all the help have done the top bushes today as you said you can turn it out to replace the bushes.I am going to do bottom arm bushes next week.Does anyone know if you have to remove the eyebolt in the middle of the arm. Thanks again GREAT ADVICE

[les]

No, don't remove it!

[philthehill]

To do the eye bolt bushes you are going to have to undo all the work you have done so far in that you will have to uncouple the top link to relieve the pressure on the torsion bar/lower suspension arm before you can get to the eye bolt bushes. At least you will know how to do it! You do not have to remove the eye bolt to fit new bushes but you can undo the eye bolt securing nut on the inside of the chassis leg and turn the eye bolt to assist in removing/fitting the eye bolt bushes.

[whyperion]

But, dependent on wear in the bushes , you might find that the eyebolt hole itself has excessively worn, be prepared that a 4hrs per side (time include tea break etc), turns into three days (day 2 spent ordering new stuff)

[les]

True, I think the wear, if any, takes place at the top of the eye bolt and if not excessive can be turned through 180 degrees to extend the life of the bolt.

[bmcecosse]

You don't have to remove the top bushes again - cmon Phil! And it would be VERY unusual to renew that top pin in the damper arm... Just dismantle the two halves of the lower arm - front first while supporting the T bar load with (say) a bottle jack under the rear arm - swing the kingpin complete off the rear arm and forward out of the way. I usually lift it and support the top damper arm with something stuffed on top of the rebound stop (heavy chisel -or just a bit of timber) Then remove the eyebolt so you can inspect the internal pin and the eyebolt 'eye' for wear (and the chassis leg for cracks...) then slide it all back together - engaging the cup in the rear arm as you go. Just tap the rear arm back far enough to release the cup , but not off the splines... Tap it back to catch the cup as you refit the eyebolt with the new poly bushes installed. And then reverse the dismantling procedure - jacking up the rear arm again to catch the kingpin as you remove the chisel/timber and lower it down.

[philthehill]

bmc
You have to remove the top trunnion from the trunnion pin/bushes otherwise how are you going to take the tension off the torsion bar to allow you to remove and replace the eye bolt bushes. You CANNOT replace the eye bolt bushes any other way and be safe.
Whilst the BMC manual describes the dismantling (section K4) as you have done they use a special adapter under the thick suspension arm to support it whilst the bottom trunnion is removed. Having just a bottle jack or similar is not the right way to do it and therefore the way you describe the dismantling is in my considered opinion not a safe way to do it. Do it the long way and be safe. There is too much energy stored in that torsion bar to cut corners. Take the top trunnion off the top trunnion pin and lower the assembly to take the tension off the torsion bar then remove the front (thin arm), disconnect the bottom trunnion from the thick arm and then you can knock back the thick arm to gain access to the eye bolt bushes. That is the safe way to do it. Please remember that what ever advice is given has to be good and safe and also remember we are all responsible for the advice given through vicarious liability.
I have attached a extract from the BMC wksp manual to illustrate and show the special thick arm crutch/special adaptor being used to support the thick arm whilst the bottom trunnion is released from the thick arm.[frame][/frame]

[bmcecosse]

Phil - it's perfectly safe -have done it that way many a time. It's only held on that jack for a very few minutes while the kingpin is swung out the way - and then it is wound down (or the car jacked up) to leave the T bar free. You always have to unload the T bar some way.... At start of rallies I did it with a block of wood and a single jack at the roadside -when adjusting the ride height upwards on news of 'rough whites' ahead.......didn't even need to take the wheel off!

[philthehill]

bmc
Whilst you may have done it that way on several occasions I still do not consider it a safe way to undertake the job especially if the person attempting to do the job is not experienced in the ways of Minor front suspension. We are not giving advice to seasoned mechanics who know how to manage the risks. If the person asking the question was ware of how to do the job they would not be asking for advice on this forum.
So again I would say we (and that includes me) must be selective in the advice given and the advice given takes into account the experience of the person asking the question(s) so that they can safely follow that advice in a safe and proper manner
I personally would not want to hear of a person following my advice getting hurt. I have seen the results of too many industrial accidents where persons having cut corners to get the job done have ended up injured. And to make the point personally I had part of my foot crushed under a car hoist about 8 months after starting my apprenticeship so know what it is to have a motor trade industrial accident and which after investigation was considered to be a lack of experience and not knowing the risks on my part in using the equipment. So if it can happen to me in the environs of a BMC main dealership it can happen to anyone.

[bmcecosse]

Phil - it's been described that way over and over again, and not just be me - and the advice followed by many without the slightest accident/damage ever reported. I consider it perfectly safe - I have never heard of it being done by taking the top trunnion off the damper arm pin....but each to their own.

[Chipper]

I have also dismantled the suspension on several occasions following bmcecosse's method, without problems, though you do have to be aware of the potential hazard in the event of the jack slipping.