Morris Minor Owners Club

Hello

This is my first post, so please be gentle!

After a lot of thought, (and with plenty of encouragement from the wife ), I have decided to take the plunge and buy a 2 door saloon. I've done plenty of research and gone through the options available and decided to go ahead with a full bare metal rebuild (done professionally - I don't have the skills/facilities to do it all myself).

I had drawn up my wish list, and thought I had settled on my final spec for the car. But the restorer has thrown me with an unexpected offer!

I had originally wondered about a 1275 engine and 5 speed 'box, but decided it was too expensive to warrant the expected benefits. But now the restorer has offered me the chance to have the engine, gearbox and prop from one of his own personal cars that is currently for sale. It would be a 1275 engine and 5 speed Toyota gearbox. He says they are both in very good condition and have done only low miles since being rebuilt. I haven't yet been to see his car or test drive it - I will be going in a couple of days to try it out.

In my agreed fixed price rebuild, I have a reconditioned 1098 engine and reconditioned gearbox included. If I give these up and for an extra £2k, I can have the 1275 engine and Toyota 'box with all the work done and fitted into my rebuilt car.

Bear in mind I had already decided that it was a good idea to have that setup, just too expensive. I'm not really asking for opinions on if it's a good idea in principle, just on value for money.
So my question is, does this sound like a reasonable offer?

I don't have any more info on the actual engine, or it's state of tune, at least until I go and see / test drive his car. Are there any questions you can suggest that I should ask when I go.

Sorry about a rambling first post, but this has thrown me a bit!
Any ideas/opinions will be gratefully received.
Steve

Welcome to the forum. It sounds a LOT to me - considering 'reconditioned' 1098 engine and box were to be part of the original deal..... I suggest £1000 extra would be reasonable.... (the reconditioning of the 1098 engine and box would cost ~ £1000 which is no longer to be spent - so effectively he is getting £2k for the 1275 engine and box anyway) ..and make sure he includes a speedo fitted and matched to the gearbox - so it reads correct speed and miles. Can you tell us who is doing the work for you?

BMC

Thanks for the thoughts on price. Effectively he is saving £1k recon costs, and getting a further £2k. From my side I am giving up reconditioned items and getting "used" (run in?) but arguably "better" items for an extra £2k cost.

I'm sure you'll understand if I don't say who is going to do the work.

Yes, I had thought that the speedo being recalibrated to the new set up would be crucial, but I'm assuming it has already been sorted (but will check when I go to look at it).

Thanks
Steve

So you are being asked to pay £3k for a (slightly?) used 1275 and Toyota box. It's far too much..... and does he get to keep your 1098 engine and box?? That's another ~£ 350 gone west... I suggest again that an extra £1k is plenty - AND you get to keep the 1098 engine and box as 'spares' or in case you decide to return the car to standard.
Best plan is to stick to the FIXED price deal - all too easy for 'extras' to creep in. Unfortunately, the cost of paying someone else to 'rebuild' a Minor is NEVER reflected in the value of the finished product........

Hi BMC

Ok, thanks again for your evaluation of the "value for money" side of this offer. Looking through other posts in the forum I can see that the cost of the parts themselves are a lot less, but as you say, paying for somebody's labour to do the work is never reflected in the final value of the car.

As an example, I saw on the website of a different restorer, that for a recon 1275 engine and recon 5 speed gearbox to be fitted (during a rebuild) there wouldn't be any change from £5k!

If only I had the skills.........

Cheers
Steve

I can only guess where that quote comes from But yes - a properly reconditioned 1275 engine is close to £1k, and a reconditioned 5 speed box with fitting kit etc is another £1k maybe a bit more. But 5k overall is a bit heavy!! You'll need to decide if your expected use of the car justifies the 1275 engine - and/or the 5 speed box........ Many find a slightly improved 1098 and a lower ratio final drive with the standard gearbox is a perfectly satisfactory combination..........at an economic cost.

Hi BMC

I originally considered the bigger engine/5 speed box because I anticipate enough motorway driving to make it a worthwhile upgrade, it's just a question of whether the cost can be justified.

Your alternative approach is another way forward, I agree, and for a lot less money.

I'll give it some more thought.

Thanks for the input.

Cheers
Steve

Welcome to the forum. I think it is way too much as well.
Look at it this way.
If you had the car already with a recon 1098 and gearbox and someone said " I'll swap you my used 1275 and gearbox for your recon 1098 engine and gearbox and you pay me £2k" - would you be happy? ...........(ignoring extra labour costs)

Hi Beero

Thanks for your input. Would I be happy? Probably not, it is a lot of money. But compared to the £5k at least one restorer would want for a recon 1275 and 5 speed (Ford) 'box ......


I will ponder some more.

If that 'one restorer' is who I suspect - don't fret too much...all their prices are 'inflated' to say the least. It's entirely your choice - you asked for opinions, so you obviously have your doubts....... I hate to think what the 'restoration' is costing you anyway! I repeat my advice to not start down the slippery slope of 'extras' to the 'fixed price' deal you say you have on the resto....... It will be " the rust is a bit more than we expected ".......££££ extra to fix it properly.....or we can patch it up for now....etc etc. Are you taking pictures of the restoration work as it goes along? And - have you agreed exactly what 'reconditioning' work is to be done to the 1098 engine and gearbox? Full rebore with new pistons and crank regrind?? Or just 'shells and rings'.... ? And a complete new clutch?? Gearbox - full rebuild - or just 'checked over' ??

My advice is to always buy the best condition car with the mods you'd like in the first place - you save loads in the long term.
I should follow my own advice though

Pete

I've decided not to go with the 1275 and Toyota 'box, based on price and not knowing how well they have been treated in the past.

Photos will be taken at each stage. The spec for the engine, 'box etc has all been agreed, rebore, crank regrind, etc, etc.

I think the price is fair for the work that will be done, and at a price that is considerably less than I would have paid elsewhere. It's also only an hours drive from home so I can visit easily as work progresses. (I would have been a long way from the restorer you probably correctly suspect).

Yes, it would be nice to find a car with everything on your wish list already fitted, but if such a car exists in the condition I would like it, it probably wouldn't be for sale!

Thanks for all the advice.

Cheers
Steve

Good luck with it Steve! I suggest regular visits with LOTS of pictures - and post them up here for all to see! Later on if you find peformance lacking - you can easily upgrade to a 1275 engine - start looking now for a suitable unit... The 5 speed box has very limited benefit for a 'run about' car - only of benefit if doing large mileage. I suggest asking for the receipts for engine work/new pistons/gearbox parts etc etc - all as part of your 'restoration file' for your new car!

Thanks BMC

Sound advice, and already on my list of things to do during the restoration. We are intending to use the car as much as possible, and hoping in the future as our only car, so thinking now of things to make it "future proof".

Cheers
Steve

Think of a really good method of security too. Moggy's get pinched just like any other car and I'm guessing no insurance company will pay out for another rebuild, just a replacement.

So make sure it's secure.. ;)

Yep, security is high on the list of priorities. Steering wheel clamp (a good one) as a deterrent and a cut out switch. Can't decide yet between battery and fuel pump cutout. Pros and cons to both. Battery could be bypassed fairly easily I suppose, fuel pump and you will probably find your car a few hundred yards away!

Agreed value insurance is the way to go, but of course with any significant restoration, the final value of the car doesn't reflect the money spent

Fit both switches then!
I used these as a better 'deterrent' than a switch.
I used 'key' switches from Maplins as more of a deterrent than switches ;)