Morris Minor Owners Club

Just when you get to an interesting and important issue relating to our ownership of classics cars - it gets locked!

I'm new here so I wasn't aware that replying to a post about politics in the other thread was a No No.

I make it a rule never to venture into the 'off topic' area of a forum for that very reason, as I prefer to stick on topic as it were. In this case however, a political ruling from Brussels which has the potential to ruin a much cherished hobby for millions seemed relevant, and worthy of comment.

I think Hubert's comment: "it is said that the guidelines regarding historic vehicles are directives, not legislation. It all depends, what the UK-government will make of it" unintentionally encapsulated our fears. Most Brit's don't hold our political class in very high esteem, and rightly so. As with the green initiative, in this instance they may be inclined to go even further than required by the EU in order to 'lead the way'. Politicians enjoy such hubris.

In the final analysis this is not a LIB Vs LAB Vs Tory issue, as no matter who the incumbent government the directives issued by the EU are taken from UN guidelines in accordance with Agenda 21. Therefore to argue the merits of Red Blue or Yellow is now redundant. The key is to lobby in the hope of winning concessions, but ultimately those concessions will be temporary as Agenda 21 has no room for older vehicles of any description.

I hope I have been able to make this point A-politically. It is not a political argument, nor even a point of view, it is merely a fact from an area that very few have chosen to familiarize themselves with. Unless you are familiar with the agreements made under the club of Rome, and subsequently the scope of United nations Agenda 21, you will not fully understand your future position with regard older vehicles.

If you are concerned I suggest you write to your MP - it's what they are there for.

Thanks for that - I had no idea there was an Agenda 21 that affected classic car ownership - I'll see if I can find a link to it so that I can learn more.

Hi Roger.

Agenda 21 is the UN's program for 'sustainability' which covers all areas of human activity and it's potential for impact on the environment. On the surface this appears to relate only to so called sustainable development and ecological matters, but the wider implications of this program are of concern.

I am what could be regarded as a political Atheist, in that I don't believe in any particular doctrine and thus have no axe to grind. I do however, take an active interest in political matters in order to see which way the wind blows, which is why I advocate raising any concerns you have with your MP, and via block political lobbying as I'm sure such organizations as the federation for historic vehicles will do.

One must be pro-active in these matters, or as the legal maxim provides 'He who does not disagree - agrees', and our politicians often advance using that precept.

Well said - think many should look into this.

Have recently wondered if classic car enthusiasts in Denmark find things any easier now (presumably) without having imposed EU rulings, having decided as a nation to opt out and I assume have their own independantly voted legislations.
Any Morris owners in Denmark out there? Just thought it may be of interest to us here as to how things like this are outside of the EU?

Although coming back home I seem to remember one recent EU policy legislation considered to be plain daft , (the one concerning fishing quotas, returning and wasting perfectly good fish) apparently was actually influenced and re thought after the likes of 'Hugh Fiernly Wotsiname' the celebrity chef after his passionate massively public supported 'fish petition'

For those of us who are not into reading the long tedious and overly wordy ( and often dishonest!) outpourings of political committees, sub-committees and the like, would anyone care to ouline the jist of what that "decision" is? In terms that can be understood by myself as an average "thickie"!

As I understand it there have been no decisions made just a huge wish list from both the EU and the UN.

In the final analysis this is not a LIB Vs LAB Vs Tory issue, as no matter who the incumbent government the directives issued by the EU are taken from UN guidelines in accordance with Agenda 21. Therefore to argue the merits of Red Blue or Yellow is now redundant. The key is to lobby in the hope of winning concessions, but ultimately those concessions will be temporary as Agenda 21 has no room for older vehicles of any description.

So, to put in a nutshell, our hobby doesn't have a long term future and any classics that don't end up as static exhibits in a museum will ultimately be recycled (crushed)......................
...................any thoughts on how long we've got??

I think it's fair to say that there are many classic car enthusiast throughout the EU - probably not quite as many as in the UK given that we are completely 'Barking', but the possibility of classic car ownership becoming a 'thing o' the past' could not possibly be on the agenda. Or, is it?

Here's the latest update from the FHBVC, of which the MMOC is a member: http://fbhvc.co.uk/about-us/news/_artic ... s-testing/

A club representative attends FHBVC meetings and members will be kept updated about any issues which may have an impact on Minors via the club magazine.

LouiseM wrote:Here's the latest update from the FHBVC, of which the MMOC is a member: http://fbhvc.co.uk/about-us/news/_artic ... s-testing/

A club representative attends FHBVC meetings and members will be kept updated about any issues which may have an impact on Minors via the club magazine.

Thanks Louise, now some light is shed onto the subject for us - I think it's plain to see somewhat of a 'storm in a tea-cup', which will probably have little or no effect to the UK status quo. The rest of Europe may come off not so well - and use of our classic cars in other member countries might become slightly more difficult - but I can't see historic motoring events such as the 'Le Mans Classic' being suspended as it must surely bring much touristic income to the host country, etc,etc.

rogerowen wrote:I think it's plain to see somewhat of a 'storm in a tea-cup', which will probably have little or no effect to the UK status quo. The rest of Europe may come off not so well - and use of our classic cars in other member countries might become slightly more difficult)

Roger politicians are like burglars in that they steal your possessions (your rights and freedoms) while you are sleeping. Also like a burglar, with the slightest hint of the victims awakening from their slumber they remain temporarily still and silent, only to resume when, fears allayed, you go back to sleep.

Catch them red handed and they'll even try to tell you how they weren't stealing at all, in fact they found your silverware on the doorstep and were just putting it back for you.

There is an overall plan to restrict the use of older vehicles. It isn't a case of the rest of Europe might not fare so well, it is a case of you are part of Europe and will be subject to its rules. In plain rather than political language a directive is an order. it is something you are being told to do. As Hubert pointed out it is not enshrined in law as it has not been legislated, but nevertheless it is an indication of what is desired.

The reason these things are done this way is to test the water. A directive gives the host nation the freedom to suck it and see, and if the population doesn't object over much then it will become law. If however, the directive is met with stiff opposition then they have the leeway to drop it and try again in a different way. And that's the key, they will try again in a different way, once they have decided that you are once again sleeping.

Hi Joe,

I agree with all you say, it's annoying that poor folk like have to pay for nonsence like this - even though we don't want it! Yes, let's protest as best we can - and it does help enormously to promulgate the information (thanks again Loise!). Lot's of people (myself included) had no idea about the impending issues, and by the power of communication - this web site is now helping with this.

My bottom line, as I've always been a bit of a rebel (sometimes with a cause - Save the Whale - that sort of thing), if someone in Brussles actually persuaded someone in the UK that I could not use my classic car in a way that I currently do - and I dissagreed with the legislation (altering the status quo I currently enjoy), I would have no compunction to observe said legislation.

judging by the responses i think i'd best leave this in here:



probably also worth noting that owners of pre- 1960 cars (which includes me) have recently enjoyed witnessing legislation (not guidance) that exempts them from being required to have their vehicles pass an MoT test every year, which is probably a better litmus test of government opinion than layperson speculation on 'guidance' documentation

Aye, wer'e doomed alright. Think wev'e been over the 'no mot requirement for pre 1960 cars before'. Personally, I think that was pretty daft - why not just have a simpler (general safety) test? That's got to be betterr than no test at all.

Some good info here:-

http://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/topic/ ... ing-167913

twincamman wrote:Some good info here:-

http://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/topic/ ... ing-167913

either the link must've taken me to a different website (possibly the Daily Mail judging by some of the comments) or i've misunderstood your post ;)

i think a better idea may be to read up on how the system works in Switzerland*, which sounds far more like what the guidance is proposing than an out- and- out ban.

*which has a historic system that tries to keep historic vehicles, well, historic. so wild mods are out, but preservation is fine. this is full on legislation in that country, rather than just a set of vague parameters.

wild mods are out

Why should this be though, and who decides what's "wild"?

Too many legal types end up in government and seem to legislate for the sake of it.

It seems only a matter of time before working on your own car is as hedged around with law as DIY is becoming