when turning starting handle... hard

[nam]

I have not managed to start my engine yet and have changed all serviceable items. I have spark at plugs coil points. My battery has gone flat after trying so I thought ill try with the starting handle and I was finding it would rotate but on most turns it was really hard to turn it. I have to really push it. Then it gets easy then push. Is it normal or should it just rotate fairly easy?

[bmcecosse]

You should feel even pressure building up as each piston rises to the top. Obviously there are 4 cylinders - if one or more are 'easy' then there is a problem......either valve gaps wrong (have you checked/set them?) - or burned valve - or blown head gasket - or burned out piston....... But let's keep positive for now - if you feel a 'kick' against you as you turn - then that is the spark igniting mixture - retard the timing slightly..... You do know to hold the handle with your thumb NOT wrapped round the shank.......?

[simmitc]

I think that you have tried to describe a relatively normal feel. When the cylinder passes TDC on compression, then it will be easy to turn until the next cylinder comes up to compression, ta which point it should be quite hard to push over , then easy, then hard, etc. However, there should be a consistent gap between the difficult parts. Your "most turns" suggests that there is at least one where there is no great resistance. This in turn suggests problems as above.

You should really use a compression tester, but if you do not have one, then improvise: Remove all spark plugs. Place your thumb firmly over No 1 spark plug hole and turn the engine over by using the handle - make sure that you use sufficient turns to get to the compression stroke. You should feel the pressure building up until the lift your thumb. Repeats for the remaining cylinders. If all feel the same, then at least they are equal. If one or more fail to build good pressure, then you have a problem.

Going back to why the engine won;t start - are the plug leads on the correct plugs? If you have a good spark at the right time, and good compression, then that leaves only fuel - does the pump deliver fuel correctly?

[nam]

After reading your comments i went back out now to note exactly what is happening.

I watched this video to get an idea if i'm doing it right

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjLiGqC_YsI

Then I started at the 4 o clock position and it was quite tough to pull it, then fairly easy till 10 o clock when it got tough again. Then easy till 4 o clock and so on. Fuel pump is ticking away and i filled the float chamber anyhow. I took the air filter out and it looks clean.

Plug leads are on ok i believe i saw a guide that told me 1, 3, 4, 2 starting from 1 on the nearest to the radiator. Then anticlockwise on the dizzy.

Also does the spark need to be really strong like a cooker ignition, because they were sort of little sparks when I tested. I'm trying to get a mechanic to come and see the engine but three times he has let me down so no luck there yet.

[bmcecosse]

No! The sparks are not that bright. ANY spark will fire the engine - at least to get it started.. The 10/4 sounds correct enough - but you may not have the spark plug leads on the correct plugs - at the right time..... Try moving them all round one place at a time to see if anything happens.... Also - when starting with the handle - you need to 'snatch' it through the hard part to have any hope of success. I recommend charging the battery and using jump leads from another car.......

[JOWETTJAVELIN]

This is EXACTLY how turning on the handle should feel - with ign off, turn it to the end of the hard (compression) stroke, then past this to the easy stroke, just to get the feel of it. Now, with ign on (and choke out if a cold engine), turn slowly up the compression stroke, and then with a smart movement wind it up. The engine should fire. Note the comments viz. broken thumbs.

If you have spark it must be a fuel/mixture problem. You are pulling the choke out?

[nam]

I didn't pull the choke out on trying to start with the handle... ok sounds like i'm close. Could someone please check my ht leads setup and see if I got it right??[frame][/frame][frame][/frame]

[JOWETTJAVELIN]

1,3,4,2 - yes that is fine. What is that black wire running from the coil support bracket?

Pull the choke fully out and try again. If it fires push it in until it will idle smoothly.

The engine bay is also filthy, which won't be helping anything.

[nam]

Oh, i'm looking at my own picture now and i seem to have done. 1,3,4,2 CLOCKWISE. do i need to make it anti clockwise like i read somewhere?

And where is the slot for lead no 1 start?

black wire.... not figured that out yet. think it's headlamps earth. will be re-located when i get round to it. Agreed engine bay is filthy, should have seen it before i gave it a little clean

[bmcecosse]

Indeed - it's NOT right.....unless your clock runs very differently....... #1 can be anywhere you want it to be. Just move them round till it fires up, but do please use the same clock as the rest of us......

[simmitc]

Yes, anti-clockwise 1-3-4-2. Easiest way to check where to start is to remove the spark plugs, stick your thumb over number 1 cylinder (the one at the front of the engine) and wind the handle until you feel the compression building up. Now look under the front of the engine where you should see the timing marks. On the crankshaft pulley should be a small notch. Continue turning the engine until the notch lines up with the centre of the three marks. Now remove the dizzy cap and see where the rotar arm contact is pointing. That is the position of your number 1 lead in the cap. Make sure it goes to number 1 plug, and then worl round from there.

No 1 lead is normally just after the low tension terminal on the side of the dizzy, but with an unknown engine, someone could have put the gears back in a different place, so it's best to check as above. Good luck, it sounds promising. With all leads correct, battery charged, and choke out, I'd try it on the starter.

[nam]

Thanks, don't i feel like a donkey. Doing it clockwise!!! Will read the clock correctly tomorrow.

And will also follow the advice of taking all sparks out and trying to line it up and find the correct first terminal.

[bmcecosse]

It's not worth it - just put them on and try, if no good - move them round and try again. Statistically - it will be running by the third try... Why on earth did you not pull the 'choke' out?

[katy]

I have to really push it.

If I read this correctly, you are pushing down on the starting handle. You should be pulling up on it, and as bmcecosse said: "You do know to hold the handle with your thumb NOT wrapped round the shank.......?"

[bmcecosse]

I urge you to start the engine using the electric starter - once you know it is running correctly, then by all means practice using the handle......

[nam]

Will do!

Plan of attack tonight is:

Swap spark leads so it's anti clockise 1,3,4,2 starting at the first plug after the low tension terminal on the side of the dizzy. Ignition on, choke out. And pull starter, if it fails i will just rotate the leads anti clockwise till it works.

[nam]

Right, three blisters later from trying to start it with the handle on four times with the leads changed and no luck. Battery is a new one but was too flat and my charger didn't charge it properly so i have ordered a new charger so will report back in a few days.

[simmitc]

If the battery is really flat, then you won''t get a spark, so it won't run. If the battery is new, the question has to be: Why is it flat? Do you have a fault with the wiring that is allowing the battery to drain? Perhaps the interior light stays on? As an aside, someone left their side lights on when arriving at work this morning . When ready to come home, nearly nine hours later, the battery was flat. A couple of turns with the handle and the engine roared into life. This just proves that if the engine is ready to go, then it will go. Keep at it, good luck.

[nam]

Battery flat is from me trying to start it a lot. I don't leave it connected when I'm not working on it. I still feel Maybe its sticking sometimes as its so hard to turn. Should be more freely like on the video. I'm thinking to take the engine cover off and have a poke around and turning it by hand to see if it all looks equal....

Your right if its ready to start it just will like yours lol

[bmcecosse]

Engine cover off?????? You need to leave a battery on charge for solid 24 hours. To check the engine - take all the spark plugs out - NOW it should turn easily round and round... And use a piece of cloth to protect your hand when turning....