Morris Minor Owners Club

Hi All
I'm putting a Ford Pinto and type 9 gear box in my Moggy, and need to change the clutch operation. I believe there are kits that can be purchased but have had no joy in finding one. I know this hydraulic conversion was done by those who fitted Fiat engine and gearboxes. I have spoken to JLH but they have been a bit vague about the availability of a kit.

I would welcome any comments and advice on this conversion. Thanks

I'm very surprised JLH can't advise?? Some people butcher the bulkhead and fit complete Marina peddle box.

I converted my Minor clutch to hydraulic operation when fitting the Ford gearbox but as it was one of the first to be fitted to a 1275cc Midget engine I had to source, modify and fit a lots of parts myself but all the parts I used are still available from various suppliers. What I did was to mount a hydraulic master cylinder (available from Merlin Motorsport) on the gearbox cross member (with strengthening plate) which is connected to a mini/MG Midget slave cylinder (available from Mini Spares) (not forgetting the two coarse threaded cyl mounting bolts) on the bell housing (supplied by CS Auto-classics) by a metal pipe & flexible hose; with a hydraulic fluid reservoir mounted under the bonnet. A MG Midget clutch release arm with push rod was required with a ball race release bearing (available from Peter May Engineering Pt No 5.6). I used the existing clutch pedal with a welded on extension (but it can be bolted on) and ran a tube with adjustable ends and forks from the pedal to the master cylinder (again most clutch cylinder linkage parts are available from Merlin Motorsport). The clutch release arm pivot bracket I had to make but it was not too difficult. It may sound Heath Robinson but it was and is a properly engineered job and works well and copes with a very high pedal pressure AP full race clutch.
As you are fitting a Pinto engine you may have to mix and match and use a bit of engineering ingenuity as I did. The Ford bell housing (and clutch operation, cable if I remember right which pulls the lever forwards) is different to the one supplied by CS Auto-Classics. You may be able to convert the Ford release arm to hydraulic operation without too much difficulty. For example could you attach the Mini/MG Midget slave cylinder to the Pinto bell housing behind the release lever so the release lever is pushed forward or use as I did the MG Midget release lever and mount the Mini/MG Midget slave cylinder in front of the release lever. The ball race and release lever I used fitted over the front Ford gearbox cover/release bearing carrier without any difficulty. You may have to modify the release lever hole in the Ford bell housing to accommodate.
Some photos of the hydraulic conversion I carried out are attached. Unfortunately I cannot photo inside the bell housing until stripped out.
The pivot bracket (my spare in picture) is fitted inside the bell housing and is what the clutch release arm pivots on. [frame][/frame][frame][/frame][frame][/frame][frame][/frame][frame][/frame]

Many thanks for the info and the time taken, it has now given me a clue where to start

Very neat and tidy install there Phil!

Have just been looking at a Pinto bell housing and you should be able to mount a Mini/MG Midget slave cylinder on a flat plate bolted onto the outside and behind the bell housing release lever slot to push the lever forward. Adjust fore and aft position to suit throw of release lever. I would also suggest that you could use a slightly modified Minor clutch release rod (Pt No COM 123) by cutting the 'L' bend off and shortening to suit (if you can put a Ball End on the slave cylinder end of the rod so much the better) and with the adjusting nut (Pt No COM 125) and locking nut turned through 180 degrees between the slave cylinder and the Ford release lever utilising the hole where the operating cable was fitted. Fit a return spring between the release lever and the spring bracket (usually mounted behind the slave cyl bleed nipple) to pull the release lever off. You may have to put packing between the mounting plate and the slave cylinder to get the correct alignment.
The jobs done and you should be on the road by breakfast time.

Bmc
Many thanks for the positive comment.
Phil

bmcecosse wrote:Very neat and tidy install there Phil!

He also knows how to use a split pin,---- by not wrapping it round the clevis pin half a dozen times

Thanks again Phil

Not sure about being done by Breakfast though!!! very much in the planning stage at the moment. I have the engine and gearbox to go in, so wanted to have the parts ready to crack on. Have you used the Minor cross member to mount the type 9 or did you have to fabricate something?

Thanks

Chris

The Ford gearbox fitted to my Minor was originally a 4 speed 2000E single rail and was subsequently converted with a Quaife CR/SC gear set, a Quaife gearbox casing/top cover and Quaife quick shift. The Type 9 gearbox mounting foot may be back a few more mm to take account of the 5th gear but the external dimensions of the gearbox are basically the same. Somewhere I have dimension drawings relating to the majority of Ford rear wheel drive gearboxes but at the moment cannot lay my hands on them to confirm. If I find them I will post dimensions on this thread.
I used the Minor cross member to mount the Ford gearbox but had to lower the cross member by about 1/2" by using packing between the chassis rails and the cross member (see above photo) to clear the floor of the car and centralise the gearbox tail shaft/propshaft through the chassis cross member. The mounting foot of the gearbox sits inside the cross member on a Minor spring pad Pt No: SUS712 which in turn sits on a Minor rear axle plate Pt No: SUS711 (bolted to the cross member) and is bolted from below with the original Ford gearbox mounting bolt which has fitted to it a Minor rear S/A link bush Pt No: SUS703. The bolt is loctited and wired in position. I was quite surprised how it all went together as if it was meant to be! Because I was using the CS Auto Classics bell housing and Midget engine the cross member mounting bolts fell right. As you are going to use the Pinto engine, bell housing and gearbox the cross member mounting bolts in the chassis rail may not fall right so you may have to relocate the engine /gearbox fore and aft therefore you may have to use a fabricated gearbox mounting cross member. You will have to suck it and see as they say!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have found a pull type slave cylinder from Rally Design, has anyone had experience of these?

I have no experience of the Rally Design slave cylinder but have looked on the Rally Design web site and the slave cylinder you mention Part No: 260-1333 seems to be ideal but you are still going to have to manufacture an anchor point for the rose jointed end unless Rally Design have an off the shelf anchor point specifically for the Pinto Bell Housing and/or are able to advise an alternative. I think that you are right to look at all the options before committing yourself and cutting metal. As they say measure twice, cut once!

I am about to hydraulic a type 9... (behind a zetec)

You can buy concentric release bearings for them (ebay) which is a straight bolt in and plumb up, BUT they arnt cheap! (£177 +post)

I am going to be using a landrover (or midget/mini, i havent decided yet) slave, bolted to a hefty piece of steel (flat or angle depending on the slave) which is bolted to the flat part of the bellhousing at the front. This will push the ford release arm towards the front of the car. If you get a domed nut you can use it to make a good end for the push-rod.

Have a look here http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=177419

You do not want a spring pulling back, its a proper bearing (not a carbon one) and they are meant to run in conctact with the clutch.

If you fit a return spring - it will pull the slave cylinder home, leaving a very long stroke when you use the clutch. The Mini has a return spring - BUT - it also has a little stop screw so the clutch arm only draws back to that point. Thus removing the release bearing from contact - but only just! This is the system I would fit - release bearing rubbing all the time can't be good... £177 ??? There MUST be a less expensive way...

Thanks for the advise everyone I think I'm going to take Phil's route for the pedal with a pull slave having now seen some photos on kit cars.

Hi 'philthehill',
You seem to have used a link nut to extend the threaded bar going from your master cylinder to your clutch pedal connection, may I ask where you sourced this and the extra piece of threaded bar from? As I think I need to do something similar to mine.
Many thanks,
Mike.[frame][/frame]

The threaded tube is a female screwed tube for rose joint and is quite adequate for what is required though one of the links provides for a longer master cylinder operating rod which could be cut to whatever length is required and you may not need to use the female joining tube.
The threaded bar was sourced off 'e' bay.

https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/gi ... is-gmc-clv
https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/gi ... unf-gmc-pr
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Threaded-Inse ... 3f3878fe9a
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-16-Threaded ... 3f034fb1b5