Newby

[margoleadbetter]

Hello guy and gals,

just joined the club, awaiting my pack, we have recently bought a 65 2 door in Smoke Grey names Margo (hence the username), having come from a family that have all had minors many years ago and having quite a number of classic car buddies who have them too I decided its about time I got one.

Shes a solid example with all the welding done, new wings, nice interior and chrome, only 47000 miles and is a hoot to drive, the idea is to get the paint done in time as its had a poor repaint in 2011 which looks ok from 10ft away!

The brakes are pretty rubbish even though theres a servo fitted and I think somethings not right (weve bled them) plus theres a pronounced "knock" from the front end over bumps, which sounds like a ball joint so I expect maybe a work trunion (they are jam packed full of grease)


Tim Leech

[bmcecosse]

Welcome to the forum Tim. Don't ignore the knock - that needs urgent sorting out. Very first checks - are the damper mounting bolts all TIGHT? Are the bump stops and rebound stops in place? Is the suspension sitting too low? Should be approx 26" from ground to highest part of front wing arch. The dampers may also be empty or running on ancient /thin/smelly oil. Drain them out and refill with SAE 40 engine oil (NOT 10W40) if you can find it - or SAE 30 will do for now.

[margoleadbetter]

Thanks for the welcome, I dont profess to be a mechanic but am fairly ok with basic maintenance (thank fully mine has electronic ignition as points an condensor get me in a sweat). Ive changed the oil and filter (it has a spin on conversion) for quality 20w/50 and plugs and airfilter, had my uncle set the tappets and mixture as it was running way to rich.

She rides well considering and sits nice and level, the steering is pin sharp (better than I imagined) and passed the MOT a month before I bought it (last weds).

I will certainly check that the dampers are tight.

The knock noise sound to me metal hitting metal and if it were any other car I would say it was a worn ball joint.

The brakes concern me as im not the heaviest of guys and need to give it a fair old shove, my other half who only has driven modern stuff had a little testrun and scared himself to death as the brakes didnt seem to work!

Its had a brand new servo and master cylinder fitted aswell as wheel cylinders, I have bled the system and got lots of air out but think there may be a leak somewhere as its gone spongey again. I will get the drums off the front this weekend and make sure the shoes are on the correct way etc, I have adjusted them through the holes in the drums itself and got them tight then one notch back so they didnt rub.....

Im located in Ashby de la Zouch, so if theres any local other members or meets I would be pleased to hear about them!

[bmcecosse]

There really is no need for a servo on a wee car like a Minor. In their day - these were sold to little-old-ladies and District Nurses (who granted may not have been so 'little' ) - and the brakes should lock all 4 wheels at 20 mph on a dry road - without a servo. Servo doesn't make brakes any more efficient - it just drops the leg force necessary. It may not have been installed correctly of course.... If it passed MOT (unless it was a 'postal' MOT...) then the brakes can't be too bad. It's not possible to put shoes on wrong way round. Getting air out is worrying! That should never happen unless some work has been done on the system.

[margoleadbetter]

The cars had a new mastercylinder aswell, it may be the guy who restored it before me went to town, its got new brake pipes, fasteners, halogen headlamps and electic washers (and a hidden 4 speaker CD).

It could be that the master cylinder needs adjusting as theres too much free play.

I shall have a look on Sunday and see whats what.

Thanks

[bmcecosse]

Oh dear - mixed up priorities there!

[ASL642]

Hi Tim - welcome! As you are based in Ashby de la Zouch your nearest MMOC branch would be the Leicester one.

Details : http://www.leicsmmoc.org.uk or contact John Hales 10five09 8one3507 Details of meetings are on their website.
Give John a ring - someone local may be able to come out and help you with your brake problem.

They also have their annual branch rally coming up soon if you are free.

August 18th Donington le Heath Manor House Museum, Manor Road, Donington le Heath Coalville LE67 2EW It starts at 10am Entry (car + passengers) £6.50 in advance £7 on the day. Might meet you there?

[margoleadbetter]

Excellent! I work weekends but will try and get their as its 4 miles from my house!

Will there be many people at the Morris Register meeting next weekend?

[margriff]

Hi...welcome to the club. I hope you enjoy your new moggy as I am enjoying mine

[rogerowen]

The cars had a new mastercylinder aswell, it may be the guy who restored it before me went to town, its got new brake pipes, fasteners, halogen headlamps and electic washers (and a hidden 4 speaker CD).

It could be that the master cylinder needs adjusting as theres too much free play.

I shall have a look on Sunday and see whats what.

Thanks

I had similar problem with brakes. Has your car been standing for a while unused? My daughters car had all new brake parts but had been left unused for about 2 years. Moggies (in fact all cars) prefer to be used regularly. We never found a single solution to poor braking apart from leaking wheel cylinders (pattern ones being worst offenders), all now replaced with Lockheed ones. Bit by bit we worked our way through replacing just about every brake part.

What's the fluid like when you bleed the brakes? If cloudy then I'd expect seal deteriation somewhere or flexible pipes breaking down.

Spongyness would indicate air getting in somewhere - cheque tightness of all unions (use a proper brake pipe spanner that covers more of the nut than a standard spanner).

Good luck! and welcome

[margoleadbetter]

Thanks Roger

Its always difficult to diagnose issues without actually seeing the car, they are simple so I guess its trial and error. As it had all new brake parts I would assume he replaced the brake fluid....we put quite a bit in when we bled the brakes as there was so much air in it!.....is DOT 4 ok or is that too new.

The previous owner bought Margo for £400 as a restoration project in 2011 (it was in a heck of a state), finished it and never used it.... Its done 300 miles since it was finished but was left outside so not ideal! Theres no rust but the paint is cr*p, lots of sanding marks, paint peel etc and the only way would be to redo the whole lot which is the plan over the winter as I have a big enough garage to dismantle it in.

I work at a VW main dealer but they are all trained on new stuff so as theres no ECU to read for fault codes I dont bother to let them near it!

Ive rang John Eales but he is away today so may try and arrange to meet up with him and let cast his eye over Margo......(their website is currently not working?)

[blues2rock]

Hello mate, regarding the brake problem, once you have sorted out the hydraulic side of things if they are still inefficient then suspect the linings. The market is flooded with cheap and nasty linings which look ok but are the wrong grade of friction material. If there are any doubts then reline with Ferodo or Mintex (making sure they are genuine not copies) and you may be surprised how good standard minor brakes can be.

There must be hundreds of Minors that have had unnecessary servo and disc 'upgrades' because their owners were not happy with the brakes!

Good luck with your new motor.

[rogerowen]

Thanks Roger

Its always difficult to diagnose issues without actually seeing the car, they are simple so I guess its trial and error. As it had all new brake parts I would assume he replaced the brake fluid....we put quite a bit in when we bled the brakes as there was so much air in it!.....is DOT 4 ok or is that too new.

The previous owner bought Margo for £400 as a restoration project in 2011 (it was in a heck of a state), finished it and never used it.... Its done 300 miles since it was finished but was left outside so not ideal! Theres no rust but the paint is cr*p, lots of sanding marks, paint peel etc and the only way would be to redo the whole lot which is the plan over the winter as I have a big enough garage to dismantle it in.

I work at a VW main dealer but they are all trained on new stuff so as theres no ECU to read for fault codes I dont bother to let them near it!

Ive rang John Eales but he is away today so may try and arrange to meet up with him and let cast his eye over Margo......(their website is currently not working?)

DOT 4 is fine. If the car has been sat outside for a long time it's possible that you may have a problem with the master cylinder. Even though it may have been replaced, left standing it's possible for condesation to occur within the brake fluid, the water element then sits along the bottom of the bore of the mater cylinder and rusts. The subsequent 'pitting' will shred the seal when the car gets used - and brake problems quickly ensue. It can be a tricky operation to replace the master cylinder - do not follow Mr Haynes (of manual fame) - he'll have you dissmantling half the car to get to the master cylinder! If the bore is pitted there is absolutely no point in just replacing the seals - new seals will just rip to shreds in no time. I won't bore you with a step by step guide to the easy way to replace the MS - you'll find very good old threads on this topic on the site.

Another possibility is the diaphram in the servo. We run 2 Moggies both without servos (one even has the smaller 7" front drums, and yes - compared to modern cars - braking takes a bit of getting used to. However. the first time I drove a Moggie with a servo I nearly went through the windscreen on first brake application, if that's not happening in your car - there's something very wrong. If you are brakeing in a straight line - then there's not a wheel cylinder fault - just one of the 4 front ones not operating properly and you'll get a frightening tug to one side.

Good luck with sorting the brakes out - let us know progress.

Oh, and as blues2rock rightly says - avoid the nasty cheap brake linings that are being supplied - the friction surface is very very poor as is the fit.

[margoleadbetter]

Thanks Chaps, will advise you what the weekend brings once ive taken the drums off

[JOWETTJAVELIN]

Even the smaller drums stop the car almost dead.

[margoleadbetter]

Mine stops but does need a really big SHOVE! there was quite a lot of play in the master cylinder pushrod which I have tweaked, just waiting for a dry day to see if its made a difference.

[margoleadbetter]

Well the brakes have gotten worse, I went toa car meet in her last Weds, where 3 other similar 2 door 1098cc cars were on site belonging to friends of mine. I drove one and couldnt believe how much better his brakes were than mine....on the way back they gave in all together and were on the floor before anything happened .

I had the drums off on Sunday, cleaned and inspected the linings/cylinders (all seemed ok) and put them back together and adjusted them up, bled them again (lots of air again) and we had a good pedal for a minute or so and then back to nothing much.

master cylinder rebuild kit on its way which will be expertly fitted by my good friend and old car spanner wielder Mark...

[rogerowen]

Hope you get away with just MC seals, if the bore is shot it will rip your new seals to bits in no time. Believe me - been there, done that - and it's a bit of a pain having to take the MC out twice in one day. If the bore shows any sign of wear at all get a new Master Cylinder. The are a couple of good threads on this site about how to change the MC - do not follow Mr H's manual, it will have you dissmantling half the suspension!

[margoleadbetter]

Thanks Roger,

My friend has a 50's sheerline (also with the master cylinder tucked under the drivers feet) and has replaced them on a few Minors over the years, I have a spare albeit rusty looking cylinder and Mark says he will "hone the bore on the old one" if required

Im rather short of cash at the moment (new bathroom) so if a set fo £6 seals does the job I will be happy!

Know what your mean about the locating bolts, already been told to ignore the manual and jack up the torsion bar to gain access!

[rogerowen]

Thanks Roger,

My friend has a 50's sheerline (also with the master cylinder tucked under the drivers feet) and has replaced them on a few Minors over the years, I have a spare albeit rusty looking cylinder and Mark says he will "hone the bore on the old one" if required

Im rather short of cash at the moment (new bathroom) so if a set fo £6 seals does the job I will be happy!

Know what your mean about the locating bolts, already been told to ignore the manual and jack up the torsion bar to gain access!

I tried honing too, but the pitting there was enough to allow fluid past the seal - leading to total brake failure after a short time. Hope you are luckier. If you do have to go for a new cylinder - make sure it's a Lockheed one and be prepared to grind off 1/8" on each side of the casing to allow it to drop into the chassis leg.

Good luck.

Cheers,

Roger