Morris Minor Owners Club

Hi all, my name is Martin, I live in Stevenage and I've had a Snowberry White 1969 Traveller, HPP905G, for a couple of months now. I bought it as an unfinished project from a guy who bought it in November 2011 from someone else who had been trying to get it on the road since about 1992. With the help of the MMOC technical help I have overcome some problems, and even managed to drive it to get an MOT and back home again... barely... but I am stuck on this particular problem. The clutch was extremely hard to operate so I read through many pertinent posts to give me an idea of what the problem could be. I checked the obvious things like seized pedal shaft parts and carpet getting wedged in the pedal travel area. After various attempts at clutch adjustment (the adjusting rod nut was adjusted as far as it would go) I decided that it was most likely that someone had put a diaphragm pressure-plate in instead of the correct one... so i ordered a new OE clutch kit and a clutch relay shaft kit as well. After fitting the new clutch kit and relay shaft kit the clutch operated easily, as it should, but I noticed that the relay shaft was at a peculiar angle. About an inch too far back and about an inch too high at the gearbox side. I looked at the gearbox mounting rubber blocks and decided that they could be in the wrong way around, left block where the right should be etc. That could drop the gearbox end an inch or so perhaps. I also looked at the engine mounting brackets and decided that swapping left for right and vice-verse should bring the engine forward an inch or so. Before I dropped the bellhousing to change the clutch I noticed that it was almost touching the steering rack and the top two bellhousing bolts couldn't be removed without lowering the tail end of the gearbox a lot. After changing the engine mounting brackets and gearbox rubber blocks over, the relay shaft was too far forward and too high still. Any ideas anyone? Or can anybody tell me where I can see a good photo or diagram showing the orientation of the mounting blocks and brackets perhaps. I didn't find anything in the BMC workshop manual.pdf or Moss's or the practically useless Haynes workshop manual.

The relay linkage isn't straight on mine either, so I guess it is normal.

If it is working okay without binding then I wouldn't worry.

Tom

To get at the top two bell housing bolts, remove the engine mounting towers and lower the front of the engine.
If you have a 1098 engine and box it is very unlikely hat you have a 1275 diaphram clutch as they are different diameters, different flywheels etc

Tom and Maria wrote:The relay linkage isn't straight on mine either, so I guess it is normal.

If it is working okay without binding then I wouldn't worry.

Tom

Hi Tom, thanks for the fast reply. I have seen photos of relay shafts on other peoples cars and they all seem to be fairly straight. It's not binding right now because it is brand new and not worn... but before long I'm pretty sure it will be worn out and binding again if I don't get it aligned better than it is now... somehow.

The only reason I can think of for my clutch to become close to impossible to operate is the mis-aligned shaft which probably caused the whole shebang to virtually seize up. My particular shaft is so out of whack that I can see the bearings/bushes cranked over at a tortuous angle, which must wear them out prematurely.

Does anyone know, and can describe to me or show me, which way around the gearbox and engine mountings should be fitted?

mike.perry wrote:To get at the top two bell housing bolts, remove the engine mounting towers and lower the front of the engine.
If you have a 1098 engine and box it is very unlikely hat you have a 1275 diaphram clutch as they are different diameters, different flywheels etc

Hi Mike, I did manage to get the top bell housing bolts out ok by lowering the tail end of the gearbox. I have already replaced the old clutch with a new one for my 1098 engine and could see that the one I took out was not a diaphragm type. The reason for the virtually inoperative clutch was the almost seized relay shaft components due to it's misalignment.
What I need to know now is which way around the mountings for the gearbox and engine go as I can't find any good images or diagrams of them in any of the manuals.

With the engine and gearbox almost in place you should be able to see which way round the engine mounts go by trying them each side and swapping around if needed. Gearbox mounts are handed and if the wrong way round will foul the rear support. Again try each side.....

M25VAN wrote:With the engine and gearbox almost in place you should be able to see which way round the engine mounts go by trying them each side and swapping around if needed. Gearbox mounts are handed and if the wrong way round will foul the rear support. Again try each side.....

That's a good idea, thanks, and it's what I should have tried before swapping the mounts around and bolting them up. What I have found is that whichever way the mounts are put it seems that the relay shaft is skewed. I may end up modifying things to get it to line up but I'd rather know first which is the correct way round for the mountings. I am posting photos of what I have got so far... just in case anyone has had encountered this problem before and has solved it somehow.
[frame][/frame] Shaft from behind [frame][/frame] Shaft from above [frame][/frame] Nearside gearbox mount - right or wrong? [frame][/frame] Is this the nearside or offside part?[frame][/frame] Offside engine mount - right or wrong?

I am about to swap the engine mounts back and see how much adjustment there is with the built in slots while I await any replies.

Thanks for any en-light-enment that can be shined my way...

The angle on the relay shaft is definitely not right - it needs to be straight across..... So move parts at will until you achieve that!

The clutch relay rod should not be at that angle at all!

The gearbox mounts (14 & 15) look to be upside down - they should be as in the picture below from the MM Parts List:
[frame][/frame]
Are the part numbers stamped on them? If so ACA 5370 (14) is fitted to the RH side of the gearbox (RH as viewed from sitting in the car) and ACA 5371 (15) to the LH.

The front mounts (1) for the engine are not 'handed', but they must be fitted the right way up - the spigot goes in the top hole and the threaded stud in the lower one. The mounting towers are handed and must be fitted with the swaging of the large hole pointing towards the back of the car. The part numbers (if stamped) are AAA 3769 (6) RH and AAA 3770 (7) LH.

bmcecosse wrote:The angle on the relay shaft is definitely not right - it needs to be straight across..... So move parts at will until you achieve that!

Yes, I will be moving the parts around again until I can get the shaft position as straight as I can. The posted reply earlier from M25VAN suggesting that I could line the shaft up and move the parts until they fit was a good idea and one which I will try. I wonder if the engine mounting tower/brackets are the correct ones for the car. The ones I can see in the online diagrams don't seem to have one upright angled side and one side straight like mine have.

The 'angled' side goes towards the front of the car - the picture of yours shows them fitted on the wrong side. You have the angle at the back.

I can't tell you for sure without digging my car out - and it's well blocked in at the moment - but I think they are right enough. The diag that Richard posted up shows mounts with that angle.

IslipMinor wrote:The clutch relay rod should not be at that angle at all!

The gearbox mounts (14 & 15) look to be upside down - they should be as in the picture below from the MM Parts List:
[frame][/frame]
Are the part numbers stamped on them? If so ACA 5370 (14) is fitted to the RH side of the gearbox (RH as viewed from sitting in the car) and ACA 5371 (15) to the LH.

The front mounts (1) for the engine are not 'handed', but they must be fitted the right way up - the spigot goes in the top hole and the threaded stud in the lower one. The mounting towers are handed and must be fitted with the swaging of the large hole pointing towards the back of the car. The part numbers (if stamped) are AAA 3769 (6) RH and AAA 3770 (7) LH.

Good eye... I didn't spot that one. The gearbox mounts came out the way as shown in my photo. Now if that solves the height problem I still have to solve the longitudinal problem to get a level shaft. The rubber engine mounting blocks have the spigots correctly fitted in the corresponding holes and I haven't moved them from the tower/brackets. There are no numbers stamped on either the gearbox mounts or the engine tower/brackets. The large holes swaging in the towers/brackets are currently pointing forward so I will turn them around as a starting point for the alignment exercise and I won't bolt anything together this time until I have a reasonably straight relay shaft.

IslipMinor wrote:The 'angled' side goes towards the front of the car - the picture of yours shows them fitted on the wrong side. You have the angle at the back.

Ok, thanks for the reply, that confirms that my towers are reversed.

I think you will find that with the front towers the right way round you will correct the fore and aft alignment and the gearbox mounts fitted the right way up will correct the vertical alignment - so here's hoping!

bmcecosse wrote:I can't tell you for sure without digging my car out - and it's well blocked in at the moment - but I think they are right enough. The diag that Richard posted up shows mounts with that angle.

Thanks again. I will get on with the job when I have the time available and let you all know if I can get things lined up and functioning as they are meant to.

Engine mounts (towers) look the wrong way round, compared to mine. Yes gearbox mounts look upside down and too high. Swap engine mounts and flip gearbox mounts and hopefully it will all line up 'cos the shaft looks well out of alignment!

M25VAN wrote:Engine mounts (towers) look the wrong way round, compared to mine. Yes gearbox mounts look upside down and too high. Swap engine mounts and flip gearbox mounts and hopefully it will all line up 'cos the shaft looks well out of alignment!

I swapped the towers round and fitted the gearbox mounts the way it shows in the parts list diagram that IslipMinor posted on the thread earlier. The relay shaft now lines up longitudinally but is still about three quarters of an inch higher at the gearbox side so I guess that the gearbox mounting end is still too high for some reason. Not ideal but it will have to do for now.
Thanks to all for your help, it's much appreciated.
Martin

Try swapping the engine mounts back again.

MarkyB wrote:Try swapping the engine mounts back again.