Front suspension randomly seized - Fixed

[AndrewSkinner]

Hey guys. Havent been on here for some time and thought I would come back with a cracker!

In the last three days my morris minor has not felt right on the steering, anyway as the last three days went on the steering has got worse and worse. Today I drove it home from work and had to fight the steering wheel to drive it, it felt stiff and the car wandered.

Jacking up the car tonight I have found several issues:
1. A large split in the rubber gaiter on the steering rack.
2. The steering rack seemed slightly loose on the drivers side.
3. The passenger side upright has become so stiff that with the rack removed I can only just about turn it a few degrees either way!

So far I have:
1. removed and stripped down completely the steering rack, luckily no dirt has entered the rack enough to damage it, the rack still seems in perfect order and will be repainted and re-assembled with fresh grease + new rubber gaiters.
2. The steering rack was only just loose but could contribute to the 'drifting' steering.

now the fun one!
3. I am completely baffled at how a perfectly driving morris minor can go from running well to a completely seized upright in 3 days? The grease points were all well greased and all the rubbers seem in good condition. The car has not been curbed or hit in anyway and nothing seems to be bent or showing signs of physical damage. Is this anything anyone has encountered before?

[bmcecosse]

When were the king pins last greased? I use MOLY grease on all the nipples......

[AndrewSkinner]

King pins last greased about 5 months ago (longer than I normally leave it) but I pumped new grease in today as a last ditch attempt to free it up and instantly grease squeezed out of the seals so they were well packed.

The grease that came out also looked to be in nice clean condition. Really stuck

[bmcecosse]

The inside may be packed with hard old grease......pump in oil and apply HEAT with a gas blow torch...... Once it's moving - it will need to be stripped and cleaned for inspection. It may be the lower trunnion is partly stripped/partly pulled out -and the king pin thread is jamming against the cross pin. Check carefully.

[AndrewSkinner]

bmc you are a fountain of knowledge!

Just been out went heated up the top joint - no difference. Heated up the bottom joint and its noticeably better. Does this mean that the lower joint is damaged? Or just packed with old hard grease?

[mike.perry]

It does not matter what the problem is, it needs a complete strip down and inspection and replacement where necessary.
You could have been very close to sitting on three wheels at the side of the road.
Pack new trunnions with grease before assembly and leave grease nipple off until grease escapes though hole, then refit nipple and finish screwing trunnion on. That way you are guaranteed to get grease in the trunnion, on your hands, on your clothes and on the garage floor.

[bmcecosse]

Hopefully the fact it is better with heat - suggests just old grease......But the fact it happened 'suddenly' suggests wear and jamming on that pin. You MUST strip it down and inspect.

[AndrewSkinner]

Yeah, its a strange one as I'm usually very particular about keeping it all greased and regularly clean and check it all, guessing the part has just come to its natural end.

In all fairness despite the maintenance the old girl gets a very tough life. Its often well laden up and is regularly towing all sorts from our trailer tent to motorbikes.

Its all a bit cold and dark now but tomorrow I will strip it all down with pictures and post back. Hoping I get it back on the road in time for Castle Combe this weekend as it is meant to be taking along our trailer tent and partly built foden steam lorry.

Time to take a closer look at the other side me thinks!

[rayofleamington]

I really struggle to believe old grease will cause it to be stiff - the effort to move it would put the grease in shear which "if it caused load" would make the grease hot & thin.
i.e - it doesn't fit engineering principles.

I'd be 99% sure the threads are damaged - you'll have to persevere & strip it down. Don't forgaet to remove the trunnion pin before attempting to remove the lower trunnion from the upright. You may end up needing it all off the car and in a strong bench vice - however unless you are amazingly lucky you would need to replace the upright as well.

[bmcecosse]

When my Trav came to me the steering was tight - and it was just 'old hard grease' which responded to heat/oil etc - but I did then strip down when I had time and cleaned/regreased everything and they have done many a mile since then. There isn't enough movement to create any worthwhile 'heat' Ray! But in this case - the sudden onset tells me it has partially stripped/jumped out of engagement - and is now jamming on the cross pin.....

[AndrewSkinner]

Morning guys, as promised I have an update and pictures!

It has been a partial success but the poor old moggie still isn't on the road so was bitterly disappointed I had to take a modern car to work

Last night the steering rack was treated to a strip down full clean/inspection and reassembly with new rubber gaiters and re-installed into the car, this was a good job done so pleased with that.
[frame][/frame]

Next was the dreaded kingpin and trunnion. Below is a pic of the offending blighter! Note the lower rubber seal in looks to be in perfect condition.
[frame][/frame]
[frame][/frame]

I removed the lot from the car to save damaging anything else while trying to remove it and im glad I did! It needed to be put in the vice and a big breaker bar and all my weight just to unwind it.[frame][/frame]

Finally with the lower trunnion removed (top one was free to move smoothly) I could finally see what was causing it.
There were no markings or scrapes on the trunnion pin so it wasnt rubbing on that indicating a collapsed thread. However the top half of the thread thread (most likely to be exposed to grit, dirt and moisture) looked as if it was badly corroded. The cut out for the trunnion pin also looked as if it had been exposed to corrosion at some point in its life.

Outcome... the trunnion screws on perfectly till it hits the top thread and then stiffens up a great deal. I can only put this down to moisture and dirt making its way past the seal and causing the thread to deteriorate, although there was grease around it, I wonder if old hard grease had stopped the new grease getting onto the thread.
[frame][/frame][frame][/frame][frame][/frame]

Without wanting to take any risks the whole upright was replaced along with top and bottom trunnions. Now to replace the other side [frame][/frame]

Last issue is that I now don't have brakes but I think that is down to poor bleeding on my behalf. Will be re-bleeding the complete system tonight as I think I may have pumped air into the system by letting the reserve get to low.

Thanks for all your help guys.

[bmcecosse]

Wise move - that thread was badly worn. Moly grease is good in the trunnions.... and in the rack.....

[rayofleamington]

I can only put this down to moisture and dirt making its way past the seal and causing the thread to deteriorate, although there was grease around it, I wonder if old hard grease had stopped the new grease getting onto the thread

I think you're spot on there - if the car is stood for long enough (maybe before you had it) the grease will harden out & this does prevent fresh grease getting to the right places.

As for the top seal, I've never trusted these to keep dirt & water out. Usually when greasing them, the first grease pushed out past the seal has dirt and water in it, which makes me think the seal is not great!

[AndrewSkinner]

I can only put this down to moisture and dirt making its way past the seal and causing the thread to deteriorate, although there was grease around it, I wonder if old hard grease had stopped the new grease getting onto the thread

I think you're spot on there - if the car is stood for long enough (maybe before you had it) the grease will harden out & this does prevent fresh grease getting to the right places.

As for the top seal, I've never trusted these to keep dirt & water out. Usually when greasing them, the first grease pushed out past the seal has dirt and water in it, which makes me think the seal is not great!

What is more annoying and is becoming a huge huge headache for me is that on the other side I have the same age seals...the top trunion seal is 2/12 hears old and already split into two pieces!? Everything that is 2 1/2 years old (when it was all replaced) and rubber is simply falling apart. Hoses are cracking, seals are splitting and falling apart etc. How an earth are they churning out such junk? Makes me feel incredibly cheated and ripped off!

....although I feel I may be opening up Pandora's box making a statement about the quality of new parts.

[aupickup]

not really we all feel the same

[bmcecosse]

Maybe Declan will start to make some polyurethane seals for the trunnions ! I reckon there is a market......

[Declan_Burns]

Maybe Declan will start to make some polyurethane seals for the trunnions ! I reckon there is a market......

Maybe worth some thought Roy, and seals that can be replaced without removing the trunnions would be even better-leave it with me!
Regards
Declan

[bmcecosse]

[AndrewSkinner]

Wow that would be a huge help. I would be happy to place a pre-order on plenty of parts that have a longer life expectancy.

Declan do you already make some longer lasting rubber parts?

Trying not to go too off topic and hoping im not breaking any forum rules but where do you guys find sell the best quality parts? Or are they all getting them from the same supplier. I use my local very popular and famous Morris Minor and Mini specialist local to Cheltenham and have been nothing but constantly let down with the quality. Its not like I wouldn't pay a premium for the better stuff.

Something wrong when you replace a part that lasted 40+ years only to have the replacement last ~2 years

[Declan_Burns]

[quote="AndrewSkinner"]Wow that would be a huge help. I would be happy to place a pre-order on plenty of parts that have a longer life expectancy.

Declan do you already make some longer lasting rubber parts?

Andrew,
I and my mate have made some bits and pieces but not on a commercial basis. We discussed the dust boot this morning. I'll post back if we come up with a solution.
Regards
Declan