Morris Minor Owners Club

Hi, I have recently changed the head gasket on my 1952 side valve for the second time.

First time I did not get the head skimmed and the new gasket was leaking water externally on the front right edge. Under the top water hose.

Second time I had the head skimmed (minimum to get it flat) fitted a new gasket again and it appears to be leaking in a few places (basically worse and in more locations than before).

I have used the torque setting of 44 lb as listed on the MM website. (I have even used a friend torque reach in case mine was inaccurate. Could I go higher with the torque? If so what is safe?

I hope someone can suggest something as I am close to pulling my hair out and really want the car back on the road for the shows this spring/summer.

What make of gasket did you use? There are some rubbish gaskets on the market. A good gasket should be sealed around the edges and the water passages and should drop smoothly over the head studs onto the face of the block.
Check that the head studs are fully tightened before fitting the head, oil the threads and torque the head down a bit at a time, 20,30,40,44.
Check the torque after each use until all the nuts are at 44 without any more tightening. I would not worry about a small drop of water, the radiator holds plenty.

The top of the block needs to be perfectly clean and flat too, especially round the studs.

I cleaned the top of the block as much as possible and apart from some very fine cracking (which I understand it common) it appeared to be flat and clean.

I bought the head gasket from 'Gaskets for Classics' and the bore holes and water chamber holes on the gasket were crimped over and the gasket looked a much better quality than the first one.

When I put the first gasket on it was only leaking in one small place. However, since the skim and better quality gasket has been fitted its leaking in more places and worse than before (more water coming out).

I did exactly what you suggested Mike with regard to torque settings etc. Should I keep getting it warm and re-torquing maybe?

Keep checking the torque until the head settles down. Are you sure that the water is not leaking from the thermostat housing or top hose and getting blown around by the fan?

Thanks Mike, will keep checking then and have another go tonight. Should I do it when the engine is hot or cold? Can I go a bit tighter do you think if so by how much is safe? The water is bubbling out of the head gasket. I wipe it away and it comes stright back, more so if I increase the speed of the engine... leaks less on tickover.

Be careful of over torquing as the studs can pull out of the block as some of mine did without reaching required torque and I had to heli-coil offending studs

What torque is safe? How much did you use before the studs pulled out?

I did not reach the recommended torque 44ft/lbs the nut kept turning so took head back off and that's when i found the stud was pulling out and when i looked carefully i found that another one of the studs had been replaced with one that had been made with a larger thread that went into the block just be careful, if your torque wrench reaches the correct settings then you should be OK just be aware that it might happen

OK. Thanks. I am interested to know if anyone has gone tighter than 44 lb and if so by how much?

If 44 hasn't done the trick going higher isn't going to be the answer and is likely to give you a bigger headache.
I'd suggest taking the head off and the studs out and making sure there are no issues on the block like raised threads.
Put the head on with no gasket and make sure it sits nice and flat and isn't catching on the edge of the water pump or something.
Are there washers under the head nuts?

I checked the head on the block and it seemed fine. The head was also skimmed. Have a good quality gasket fitted. I have washers under each nut and the earth on the back centre stud as suggested in the manual (formally on exhaust joint bolt). I dont have a water pump. Are you suggesting that the nuts might be bottoming out on the threads of the studs?

That is a possibility, try 2 washers if you have any doubts. Have you got a small countersink around each stud? I bolt the earth strap to the manifold stud

Something clearly isn't right, I'm just trying to work out what it could be.
Just putting more grunt in so often ends up with stripped threads and cracked housings that are much more difficult to sort out.
I can do a very good deal on London water which is so thick it tends to cure minor leaks by itself

I would double check the face of the head for flatness. Not likely, but possible that whoever skimmed it didn't get it right.

also check the block for flatness, on this picture you can see this block is not flat anymore:[frame][/frame]
the corrosion from the gasket is visible after the cleaning.
My other block is on his way to re-bore, and make it flat, after that, new studs are mounted.
When finished and ok, this one will follow.