Not starting - fuel pump issues?

[motown_junk]

Hi all,
Firstly, a confession - I'm a bad owner and Gladys ('65 Traveller) has been laid up for over a year since I became disillusioned with her persistant engine problems but couldn't part with her. Now to the crux of the issue - I've resolved to get her back on the road (no point having a car that you don't want to sell but don't drive either!) but since trying to start her up again, she really has finally decided not to start.

So far, I've bought a new battery, engine turns but won't start and have tried using jump leads with the same result. My first port of call is the fuel pump - it isn't "clicking" when I turn the key. Could it have seized? Any way of testing it or doing a home made fix before I start to shell out on parts that might not be needed?

thanks

Catherine

[lambrettalad]

if it's not ticking it is not working ,give it a sharp tap with a soft hammer,this my free the points if frozen ,is the pump getting power? if so and they don't free it means a strip down

[mogbob]

Catherine
It sounds as though the points in the fuel pump might be stuck.The old trick is to give the pump body ( NOT the plastic top ) a quick sharp tap with the wooden end of a hammer.This may "unstick the points ".The points might need cleaning with a smooth bit of sandpaper or " non metalic " nail file.Refer to the manual.

The other major issue is : even when the above has been done... petrol quality
Over a period of time modern petrol quickly deteriorates / goes off. ..i.e although the spark plugs are working and petrol is being fed to the carburetter, nothing will go "bang" with dead petrol.
To test this, put some fresh petrol in the float chamber.Be careful with the gasket ( or order a new one ), as you remove the three screws holding down the lid.Screw the lid back on tight.Make sure your ignition is off and that there is no chance of a spark when you are dealing with fuel !!
Turn the engine over and if it fires and runs ( until the fresh petrol runs out , in volume ) then you have proved the petrol in the tank / fuel line is "dead".

There are still various permutations / reasons for it not running but it is a question of resolving the possibilities one at a time.

If you add your location you may find a local member willing to lend you a hand, to get it up and running again.I assume you don't have AA / RAC/Green Flag cover for the car ? To put your mind at ease, I don't think it will cost a fortune if it was running before
it was laid up.

Report back to the Forum with the outcome and any further guidance you may require.Good luck with it.
Bob

[bmcecosse]

All you need to do is to clean the points - just gently draw a card nail file through between the points a few times. The points are under the little plastic lid - remove the electrical connection and lift off the cover.

[MarkyB]

What were the engine problems that caused you to lay the car up?
Putting your location into your profile is a good idea, someone might have a look at it for you.

[hanvyj]

First thing I'd do is manually pour some petrol into the float chamber (just to the side of the carb, three screws on the top).

Fill it up, if it starts then the pump was the (only) issue. If its already full the pump is not the issue, it its empty and you fill it and it still wont start chances are you have two issues!

[motown_junk]

Thanks for the help so far, I've given the points a clean and it ticked away nicely. Still didn't start but I'll get some fresh petrol into the float chamber and give that a go next.

The previous problems were starting related on the whole - some times it just wouldn't start (usually after a run out and most ironically in the car park at Argos when I went to buy a steering lock!), sometimes the starter jams and makes squealing noises... Basically I got fed up of chavs shouting abuse while Chelsea Supporter at the car and decided it was too unreliable to use as I kept getting stranded. When it doesn't want to start not even jump leads or a starting handle will do the trick.

I do have breakdown cover, but only for roadside. Besides, I resorted to the AA once and the patrol couldn't find me because he'd never seen a Traveller before, then he declared that he didn't know about old engines and asked if I was sure there was petrol in it (there was). Enough said.

[bmcecosse]

Well done fixing the pump. So now - just tip some fresh petrol down the mouth of the carb (don't worry about filling float bowl etc just now) - and crank it. But likely after a year the ignition points/rotor arm etc could all do with a spruce up.

[MarkyB]

While you have the tools out check the points and tappets.
Also take the starter motor off and see what it needs.

[mike.perry]

Does the AA send you a "Satisfaction Questionaire" after a call out?
Have you checked for a spark at the plugs?

[motown_junk]

I was given a questionnaire but never had a response to my comments.

What might the starter motor need doing to it?

There is a spark at the plugs, haven't investigated the points in the distributor yet - I'll try putting fuel into the carb first and report back later.

[MarkyB]

If it jams the chances are that the bendix is badly worn, as it squeals too some lubrication may be in order.
While it's off you can make sure there is some life left in the brushes.

[JOWETTJAVELIN]

Sounds like the starter motor could be loose causing it and the engine to 'seize'. If it does this again prise off the end cap and turn the square nut until the starter is free, and tighten up the nuts holding it to the engine backplate.

[MarkyB]

Better to get it sorted out, even if it needs a recon starter motor.
Much nicer to have a car that is "on the button" than never know when you may have to open the bonnet and tinker to get it to run.

[bmcecosse]

Why is everyone going on about the starter - I don't see any suggestion of a starter problem ??

[izzi]

Why is everyone going on about the starter - I don't see any suggestion of a starter problem ??

Oddly enough I had what I thought was a fuel/ignition problem because engine was running really rough as soon as I tried to rev the engine up. Just as I was going to ask Bmcecosse for help we noticed the solenoid revealed a few sparks from the starter connections. removed them and cleaned up and all the engine problems were solved. Just a point that there may be a few unchecked loose wires.
Roy

[motown_junk]

Why is everyone going on about the starter - I don't see any suggestion of a starter problem ??

Oddly enough I had what I thought was a fuel/ignition problem because engine was running really rough as soon as I tried to rev the engine up. Just as I was going to ask Bmcecosse for help we noticed the solenoid revealed a few sparks from the starter connections. removed them and cleaned up and all the engine problems were solved. Just a point that there may be a few unchecked loose wires.
Roy

Markyb had asked what problems led to the car being laid up in the first place...

The wiring is largely original, with some patching that I did a couple of years ago, in truth it probably could do with a new loom as the wires were crumbling, hence the patchy repairs. I'm fairly confident the wiring needed to get her started is sound though - we've been testing for circuits as we go.

Anyway - latest news: I've poured fresh petrol into the float chamber and it didn't work. We've then gone back to the plugs and discovered that only the second one back from the front is showing a spark or any power We've cleaned the contacts in the dizzy cap and the dizzy it's self to no avail - could the HT leads have perished? It's a bit of a Heath Robinson affair - the plug covers have been cut down to make them fit the plugs by a previous owner... might it be worth trying to get a new one? The plugs are filthy (ie BLACK) so although we've cleaned them, I think I'll replace them for good measure.

Sooo, thoughts on what to try next?

[lambrettalad]

old black plugs are very unreliable, I'd scrap em

[bmcecosse]

Well - the 'no fire' with petrol tells you right away that it's an ignition problem - always do that as a 'first test' when faced with non-start. So yes - new dizzy cap + rotor arm + HT leads are required. Thank goodness it's not the coil!

[JOWETTJAVELIN]

Try cleaning the points first - do one thing at a time. There is no need to replace the condensor as long as it is in good working order. Check the carbon brush is present and springing in the distributor cap.

Sounds like the HT leads have been butchered and need replacing.

The points ignition is very reliable given regular attention.