REAR BRAKES

[neil4030]

I am trying to replace rear cylinders/shoes and have fallen at the first hurdle!
Both shoes are clipped to the back plate by means of a fat spring about an inch long that passes through the metal section of each shoe, at the half way point. Each of the springs have a hook on the end and this is clipped through a bracket on the back plate. The fat springs won't push through the shoes and the hooked end onto the back plate is impossible to get at. Two hours of struggle later and here I am!! I must be missing something obvious and any help would be much appreciated.
Just been back out to it and realized (again) that I am a mechanical idiot. Push springs in and turn and as if by magic!!!
Could do with some help getting cylinder off though as I have only done the front wheels and description in Rob's CD-r is a bit brief. Mentions playing a banjo? Baffled...

[smithskids]

Get hold of the front of the coiled spring with mole grips, push it towards the back plate and twist it anti or clockwise 90 degrees and it should pop out. It is flattened on the end of the spring you can't see and goes through a small slot in the backplate. By turning it round you should be able to line the slot up and it will come out. Best of luck.smithskids.

[kennatt]

or throw them away,many have,the shoes are held ok by the return springs ,as long as they are fitted on the inside of the shoes as they should be.Not had the bee hive springs on mine since I had the car 30 odd years ago. Never been a problem.
as for the cylinders remove shoes,handbrake cable disconnect brake pipe(Easier said than done) be carefull the pipe dosent twist whithin the connector,or it will split.give it a good dose of plus gas or similar penetrant the day before(Not wd40) The cylinder then just pulls out of the slot in the backplate,its designed to float about in the slot. The shoes and springs hold it in place. good luck.

[bmcecosse]

Yes - throw the little springs away.,,, Rob's CD ??? You have me baffled there... Do you have a proper Workshop manual for the car? If not PM me and I may be able to help. As for removing rear cylinders - disconnect handbrake cables (and slacken back at the lever before refitting) - disconnect the hydraulic pipe (fill the master cylinder and put a plastic bag over the filler hole before refitting the cap) - remove the little extension tubes at the rear of the cylinder - and wiggle the cylinder out. You may need to turn the hub slightly to get the thinnest part against the cylinder - and possibly gently 'assist' it out slightly past the hub....

[neil4030]

Thanks chaps. Struggling today. I now have the new cylinder fitted with 'beehive springs' in bin; couldn't get them back in anyway. I have fitted the cylinder as tightly as possible at banjo and yet the body of the cylinder slightly scrapes against the axle plate! As you say, the cylinder is loose enough (just) to move up and down but I don't like the scrape noise as I turn the axle.

[bmcecosse]

It must not scrape.... is it in the slot centrally - not just one side? And - sure the scrape isn't the hub rubbing on the shoe springs - which it must not do of course. Springs may not be fitted correctly?

[neil4030]

The springs were not fitted correctly! All is well now with the cylinder fit (no scraping) but I cannot get a pedal. I have bled a good few inches of fluid through the nipple (pipe into jar of fluid method) and to begin with, I had a half decent pedal but not quite right. Did some more bleeding but now no pedal at all, down to the boards. Might I have to go around all four wheels, bleeding each one?

[bmcecosse]

If you didn't seal the master with a plastic bag as I suggested - and the fluid all ran out - then Yes! Make sure all the brakes are adjusted up nicely - and then reconnect the handbrake and tighten up the adjusters till the lever is where you like it. I just let gravity bleed the brakes.......Never failed me yet!

[mike.perry]

Have you adjusted ALL the brake shoes. If you are not experienced at bleeding Minor brakes then I would recommend the two person method. Are you making sure that the master cylinder is kept topped up

[neil4030]

Yes master topped up and I had no problem bleeding when I changed all front wheel cylinders. Worked first time using plastic pipe with valve at one end, into jar with inch or so of fluid. Rears seem a different ball game. As no decent pedal, I did bleed out couple of inches of fluid before tightening the nipple again. Now no pedal at all. So is tomorrow's job to start at other rear wheel and work my way around car bleeding the rest? I can get a mate to help.

[bmcecosse]

Guess so - but do pull all the adjustments up first. It is just possible (but hope not..) that pushing the pedal down all the way has moved the master seals into a rusty part of the bore and torn them.....

[les]

'Throw the beehive springs away'----that old chestnut again----ye of little patience. Look over the rest of the car, there must be something else you can jettison!

[bmcecosse]

One of each pair of brake drum retaining screws ..... took MG Rover a while to catch on to that...

[David W.]

Sealing the master cylinder cap with a plastic bag is a temporary measure I presume. You don't want to leave it there when the car goes back into service.
I've used a hand vacuum pump to draw the brake fluid into the system. If I were more patient, I'd rely on gravity, too.

[kennatt]

If your are getting no pedal I would say 80% chance thats its just poor adjustment, Try adjusting the back brakes so that you can't turn the wheel by hand and see if you now have a pedal,if still no brakes then bleed them all again, after taking off the adjustment, if you have a pedal then its obvious

[neil4030]

Day two in The Big Freezing Garage. I am happy to report that you were all right! Poor adjustment, crap bleeding technique, rubbish banjo connection and not using plastic bag method (thanks Roy) all lead to one of those facial ticks we get from time to time. Just finished re-doing everything again and used a mate to bleed properly! All is well and car brakes like a Bentley which is odd cause it never did before. Many thanks again.

[bmcecosse]

Well done - have a nice hot cup of cocoa to warm yourself up!

[kennatt]

yes been there,shame its not the same value as a bently,mind you wouldn't be able to put petrol in then ,without a mortgage