Morris Minor Owners Club

Today I connected up the fuel pump and battery and tried to start my Minor - the first time this has been attempted in 20 years. The engine turned over well on the starter motor but no spark at the ignition coil, and even though I know Roy is right that it is "never the coil" I wired up a spare that I had lying around the garage. No difference so Roy, you are right.

What then should I look to next? I'm assuming black/white wire to "-" side of coil and to the distributor and a white wire to the "+" or have I got that wrong? What other wires if any should go to the starter motor? I've checked the wiring diagram at top of this forum but can't see any obvious clues

Have you cleaned or renewed the points? They are likely to be corroded. Also have you checked compression? Mine was idle for 20 odd years and I had virtually no compression due to corrosion in the head on the valve seats and a stuck open exhaust valve. Fine if it starts but don't run it for long without an oil change. It will eventually need every rubber component renewing as mine did.

Hi, thanks.

Yes cleaned all points. Engine turns over at both ignition key and red button on the solenoid but absolutely no spark coming from coil at all so think I will need to check out all wiring between battery and the coil

Only other thing I can think of is whether I need an additional earth strap from engine to body.

Any other ideas anyone please?

Have you checked to see that you have 12V at the coil when the ign switch is on?

Hi well I didn't have a multimeter to hand tonight so I wired up a test light with a dashboard bulb:

Connected positive switch wire (white) to test bulb body and placed bottom bulb contact onto coil body. I got a dim glow. I next connected to negative black/white wire (where it joins distributor body from coil negative). and got a brighter glow. That seems to show then that power is getting to the coil and distributor on the low tension circuit but still doesn't explain lack of spark from the high tension lead?

As far as I can tell, still no spark from central ignition lead from coil. Oh and no evidence of any life at the fuel pump too.

Can someone also please confirm I have the ignition barrel wired up correctly? Looking directly at white plastic back of switch I have both white wires on double terminal at 11pm, red/white solenoid wire on double terminal at 2pm (should there be another wire here too?) and the blue/brown power wire at 7pm.

All ideas much appreciated

When you earthed the test bulb to the coil body and only got a dim glow it could be that the coil body is not earthing very well. Where did you earth it when using the white/black dissy wire and got a brighter glow?
You could test the coil by hot-wiring it. Run a lead from the positive battery terminal to the +pos on the coil, then touch an earth wire to the -neg terminal and when you release it (as if the points had opened) you should get a spark from the coil ht lead.
You need to test that you have 12v on the white lead at the fuel pump and a good earth. If so you need to check/clean/adjust the contacts in the pump.
If the engine turns over okay you don't need an extra earth lead to the engine. I would also guess your ignition switch is fine if you have power to the coil and your solenoid is working although I cannot confirm the positions as I have an earlier car.

ThankS Beero I'll give all that a go tomorrow night

The easy way to test the coil is with the ign.on pull the HT lead from the dizzy ,take the dizzy cap off,hold the end of the HT lead close to the block with insulated pliers and with a screw driver flick the points open,if the coil/connections to it are ok then you will get a good spark to the block.No real need to have meters or bits of extra wire or be cranking the engine over,

OK have tested coil as Kennatt has suggested. No spark at all from the HT lead.

I also tested Positive feed (white wire) to fuel pump with a test light - nothing.

But, when I connected a test wire directly from the battery positive terminal to fuel pump "+" terminal or the fuel pump feed (white wire again) the engine turned over, although no sign of life at pump contacts.

What does all this mean?! I'm a bit stumped!

Is there an engine connected to the starter motor?

Dean wrote:Is there an engine connected to the starter motor?

?? Starter motor is turning the engine over very well.

And it's definitely an engine and not a chocolate hob nob accidentally fitted by a previous owner?

Dean wrote:And it's definitely an engine and not a chocolate hob nob accidentally fitted by a previous owner?

It looks like an engine and tastes like one but I'll have a few chocolate hob nobs if I ever get to the bottom of the spaghetti that's masquerading as a wiring loom

Kennat Is right in what he says BUT if your points are faulty or not wired correctly or you have no voltage to + on your coil this will not work.

beero wrote: You could test the coil by hot-wiring it. Run a lead from the positive battery terminal to the +pos on the coil, then touch an earth wire to the -neg terminal and when you release it (as if the points had opened) you should get a spark from the coil ht lead.

My suggestion will test your coil ONLY and eliminate anything else that may be faulty. One thing at a time.
Try and get a your coil to spark first (it's never the coil, where have I heard that before?) then move on to the fuel pump.

Can you get hold of a multimeter?

Yes you need to check that there is a power to the points and the coil, . I see you have a test lamp just use that to see if there is power ,if you have no power to the +side of the dizzy and the coil and the pump with the ign on. then probably switch fault, If you do as above with hot wired coil it will eliminate the NEVER IS the coil(But sometimes is).When you flicked the points open did you see a small spark at the point,if not then there is probably no supply to the dizzy. with the faults you have I would suspect the ignition switch,they have been known to cause problems,If you confirm power to the coil and dizzy,you need to check the condition of the points,I see you have cleaned the points,without trying to be condecending,did you put them back correctly,its easy to misplace the small insulator and thereby making a direct earth in the points this would prevent the coil from working.

Thanks for your help so far guys. Just to sum up because the thread is getting long

No spark from central HT lead to dizzy

There is power from solenoid to coil via white wire and then from coil to dizzy via black/white wire.

There was no spark at contact points - I cleaned them without removing them

Strange effect at fuel pump - no life when wired normally but a direct supply from battery to fuel pump caused engine to turn over. Connecting direct supply to fuel pump feed (white wire) also caused engine to turn over.

My guess at moment is as Kennatt suggests a faulty or perhaps incorrectly wired switch.

A couple of questions....

A). One white wire is slightly thicker than the others - is that the fuel pump feed?

B). I have three white wires connected to bottom right of fuse box - is that correct?

Many thanks

There is power from solenoid to coil via white wire and then from coil to dizzy via black/white wire. ...............................

Check that the small wire inside the dizzy(covered usually with a cloth sleeve) is intact the wire inside is very fagile and can snap without you being able to see it just pull it gently you will soon know if it has broken because it will pull out of the loose coverIt could also be abraded and shorting out on the side of the dizzy.If the pump has been wired via the solenoid to the pump,don't know if this is the correct way on yours without looking up the wiring diagragm, feeding live to the pump connection will obviously then transfer power back over to the solenoid and spin the starter,shouldnt be like this because the solenoid is designed to be powered up when the switch is turned to start position and then once started the switch is released cutting off the solenoid, so in your case also shutting off the power to the pump,and ignition .Check under the dash to see if there is a hidden security switch somewhere,its common for one to be fitted,might just be the problem ,switching power away from the pump and ignition was a favorite mod.Ill look up the wiring in the meantime.have a look at the wiring diagragm in the electrical section.The feed to the coil/ignition is not via the solenoid,and as above can't work that way,the feed is direct from the switch via fuse box to the coil and dizz via white wires the B/W is the dizzy to coil .You need to switch the ign on and with your test lamp find where the power is comming on and off, with the operation of the switch,at the fuse box this is the proper feed to the coil and the ignition and pump,not from the solenoid. The feed to the soleniod is direct from the switch and should not power anything else up.Looks like your wiring has been messed about with.

...Looks like your wiring has been messed about with

Quite possibly. In fact when I got the car there were two unexplained toggle switches underneath the dash which may have formed some sort of security device. Otherwise the wiring looks as it should in the engine bay.

I will run a new wire from the fuse box to the fuel pump in case the original feed wire is damaged/modified

I'll also check out the small wire inside the dizzy as you suggest and also test power everywhere else

I ran a separate wire between fuse box and fuel pump tonight - no difference. I also checked both wires in the distributor - you are right the cloth one is delicate but although dirty, all is intact.

I think I may need to go back to first principles and try a full rewire of the ignition system from the ignition barrel.

stag36587 wrote:
Can someone also please confirm I have the ignition barrel wired up correctly? Looking directly at white plastic back of switch I have both white wires on double terminal at 11pm, red/white solenoid wire on double terminal at 2pm (should there be another wire here too?) and the blue/brown power wire at 7pm.

I think you need someone to answer this question for you to get that switch wired right.