Brand new Morris Minors but only from old?

[totlandbay]

This is an obvious question (for my first post) but I don't seem quite to be able to get a clear answer. AIUI, it is possible to build a new Minor from scratch as all the parts exist. However, that doesn't mean it would be legal as it would be a "new" car. Older cars are therefore stripped down and restored. If I am right so far..... it would mean that every old Minor, even just a rusted heap, is vital for keeping a supply of "new" Minors in the future and so should never be completely scrapped. Am I right?

[bmcecosse]

There are no new bodyshells. So no new car is possible.

[dalebrignall]

there are firms that will rebuild you a car but you have to have very deep pockets get yourself a solid car with a years mot and do it up in stages much more fun

[Dean]

it would mean that every old Minor, even just a rusted heap, is vital for keeping a supply of "new" Minors in the future and so should never be completely scrapped. Am I right?

I'd agree with that, because like Bmc says there are no new body shells. Therefore once scrapped, gone forever and the Minor will slowly die out.

There is some truth in the fact that classic cars drivers actually help to speed up the disappearance of classics due to salvaging the parts off other cars (salvagable or scrapped cars). Then on the flip side of the coin there is an argument that if classic car drivers didn't salvage parts then the cars they used for parts would just rust to earth anyway.

[totlandbay]

There are no new bodyshells. So no new car is possible.

Well I've learnt something here tonight. I thought the only two vital bits on a Minor were the chassis number and the reg plate - everything else was made in Sri Lanka. Seriously though, I thought every constituent part of the shell was actually available and a body could be constructed, even if very expensively. Isn't this what Charlie Ware does? And surely then a problem with the shell would spell the end of the car? I'm sorry, this all sounds very naive!

PS And just to add, are there not body shells available for MGs?

[Dean]

You can buy most panels for the Moggy yes, but things like the bulkhead/dash, roof, parts of the structural boot surround and the centre piece that goes over the propshaft are obsolete as far as I know. Therefore no new shell is possible, only restoration of an existing shell.

[lowride stepside]

If you did make a new car you probably would not be able to register it because it won't conform to modern day regs .

[totlandbay]

If you did make a new car you probably would not be able to register it because it won't conform to modern day regs .

This is what I had thought but it seems that that was not possible anyway as the body shell is not available. I think where I got confused was because the chassis is (partly?) renewed but the main shell isn't. I have also checked again on the Charlie Ware site and it is clear now that they completely renovate but not build from new - and even they state that it is becoming difficult to find suitable shells. I don't have a Minor (it is on the list of possibles!) but have always been fascinated by the concept; it seems though that the everlasting car I had in mind isn't quite what I thought (close though!).

[bmcecosse]

The saloons and Travellers don't have a chassis - only the LCV has a chassis. Yes - there are new shells for Minis/Spridgets/MGBs etc (at a whopping price...) and with these you could build a new car (even then - no new engines/gearboxes/rear axles are available...) - but it would be a Kit Car - and would have to pass the stringent Gov Inspections to modern standards before it could be registered - as a Kit Car - not as an MGB etc.. Sadly no new Minor shells (why not???) - and so you must renovate an old shell as best you can - and it will retain the original identity of the wreck you renovate.

[totlandbay]

Yes, the new MG and Mini shells are about £7000+. This makes renovating an old Minor shell much better value, though you still have to find that shell. What I had thought was that the Minor was an ongoing concept - you just keep replacing the bits that fall off. Providing the shell is sound, that will work but it seems that the "herd" is shrinking as the inevitable toll of scrapped cars carries on year after year without new replacement vehicles. It hasn't put me off owning one, just that I see the situation a bit differently now.

[LouiseM]

Sadly no new Minor shells (why not???)

Well you've answered your own question Roy:

there are new shells for Minis/Spridgets/MGBs etc (at a whopping price...)

To reproduce the original press tools and jigs would be hugely expensive - apparently it takes an average of 5 press tools to make one panel and the press tools can cost in excess of £50k each. So for any business to consider producing a Minor body shell they would need to be sure that there would be a big enough market for them to justify the costs of the tooling. In comparison to MG owners for example, a lot of Minor owners are attracted by the low running & maintenance costs of the car and can be quite a frugal bunch (hence the low quality parts that are being manufactured - people prefer to buy cheap!). There aren't going to be many Minor owners queueing up to spend £7,000+ on just a shell so it's very unlikely that there would be enough of a demand to recoup the costs of production and no business is going to want to invest hundreds of thousands of pounds in producing something that is going to result in a loss for them.

[bmcecosse]

Broadly agree - especially the 'frugal bunch' - but I do think press tools (or indeed complete panels) can be made inexpensively in China or India. A simple 'tourer' basic shell (so no complicated roof - no wings etc fitted) wouldn't be all that difficult - remember floor panels are already available) and I think would be a lot less than £7k.

[MarkyB]

Never say never, I wouldn't be surprised if a CKD Minor* turned up at the back of a warehouse somewhere in the world.





* The more common form of kit form was CKD or completely knocked down. CKD kits were crates of components (19,587 individual parts in all) needing fully assembled at the destination on an assembly line using jigs and special equipment form Cowley. CKDs went to Australia, New Zealand, India, Africa, Holland, Denmark as well as the Republic of Ireland. CKDs had different colour combinations, locally made electrical components, seats, glass, tyres etc, all to lower import costs and provide more employment for local populations.

[irmscher]

Just buy the best shell you can get and build it up yourself consider it a largr meccano kit .Apparently it would cost 2Million to tool up to do a bodyshell

[totlandbay]

This is the quote from Charles Ware's site which confused me:

"We start by rebuilding the chassis, removing all areas where there is a chance of rust, replacing panels, cross members, chassis legs etc. It is then rust protected with a generous oil spray and coat of underseal."

If there isn't a chassis as such then he is talking about part of the (monocoque) body shell and then it is left to the imagination as to how far one could go in replacing the rest of it - where does the line get drawn?

[lowride stepside]

I know someone that can make you a shell , but it would take a long time and the cost would be strataspheric . He makes old aston shells for people who race, they are basically clones , sometimes they have the original tucked away in the garage , Or just the reg documents .

[moggiethouable]

It is Interesting no one in the form of kit car manufacturers hasnt made a chassis with a grp bodyshell, perhaps with a range of engines from scrappers.
When you think what has been achieved with AC replicas,after all the moggie can look very appealing with wide wheels, a chopped top and a V8 engine.

[lowride stepside]

Stop it , I'm drooling

[chickenjohn]

It is Interesting no one in the form of kit car manufacturers hasnt made a chassis with a grp bodyshell, perhaps with a range of engines from scrappers.
When you think what has been achieved with AC replicas,after all the moggie can look very appealing with wide wheels, a chopped top and a V8 engine.

That is actually a very, very good idea, that I have mentioned to Jonothan H for a few years now.

Would stop the dwindling supply of original Minors being cut up to fit modern car floor pans/running gear and also keep those happy that would like the Minor look but with modern mechanicals.