Morris Minor Owners Club

Hi!

I've just seen this, and though white wasn't my first choice of colour, it actually looks really nice and i am thinking of going to look at it (if it's still available)!

http://www.adtrader.co.uk/south-east/ox ... =traveller

Does anyone have any thoughts about this car? I've looked at the Charles Ware website and his cars seem to be restored to a high spec so if he did this one is that a good thing?

Thanks so much for any help you can give

Emma
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It's also advertised for sale on this messageboard so perhaps someone on here has already viewed it? - see these two threads:

http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=44099

http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=45512

The seller doesn't actually say that it's had a full restoration, just that it was "done up completely" 15 years ago and that other work has been done since. They state that they have receipts for the work, so ask them exactly what was done as the description is a bit vague. As with any car that you are thinking of buying, inspect it thoroughly.

For the price, it looks well worth a view if it's as described. I've sent you a PM.

Ah! This is very interesting, thank you.

I had actually looked at one of these threads a while ago - didn't put two and two together!

Emma
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does look good for the money

I viewed this car some weeks ago on behalf of another member. At the time, there was still some work which the car needed, including some welding to the floor in front of the back seat. Although it's got an MoT the rust is in the vicinty of the front spring hanger so this concerned me It's about 3" square if I recall. (Obviously Mr. MoT man doesnt go as far as lifting carpets etc and will judge what he sees from underneath!) There are several dents around the car which need sorting out too and the paint was covered in dust when I viewed it. There is some damage to the paintwork in places which would need professional repairs in my view as they are beyond repairing with a touch-up brush. The wood has been sanded back but desperately needs some sort of treatment to protect it (several layers of danish oil would be my suggestion). The interior is useable but needs some work. The front seats are black if memory serves and the rear is brown. The load area looked very tired.
The tyres are past their best. I think it had a recon engine at some point but didnt drive the car at the time as it wasnt MoT'd and the battery was flat so cannot vouch for the mechanicals.
However, there are some good points to the car and it seemed quite sound. The nearside looked like it had had a new floor front to back. The owner has a lot of history with it too.
I'd say it needs another £300-£500 spent on it to address the immediate things like tyres, welding,probably a decent service as it hasnt been used for over a year. I'd also tackle the wood treatment pretty quickly and allow for a brake overhaul.
I still have some pics I took of the car which I can send, but am away fro 2 weeks as from Saturday but could try and email them tomorrow if they are of any use.

Wow PhilR - that's such useful info, thank you!

I think it probably needs a bit too much work for me as it would use all my budget just to buy it. I'm so grateful for the information you've given as it's saved me a wasted long journey where I may have missed the things you have spotted.

Emma
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Based on the above - it looks expensive for what it is.

bmcecosse wrote:Based on the above - it looks expensive for what it is.

Not to be bashing - but here in Oxfordshire, many things are expensive for what they are. I have heard them referred to as "Oxfordshire prices".

Having bought a few (modern) cars since living here, when searching I've always ended up buying outside the area as the asking prices are often a lot higher than elsewhere (looking over my emails, my Ford Cougar would have been £500 more for a lower spec and similar condition / mileage here, and my X-Type was £700 more on average for a 2l SE compared to the 2.5V6 sport I got. I couldn't have bought the 2.5 sport in Oxfordshire, on average £1000 more).

I've often been tempted to come back home (to sunny Scotland), and buy cars to sell on down here. Sadly, I've not been able to find my camel overcoat and all Arthur Daly aspirations quenched.

David

PM Sent

Thanks David and Mike!

Emma
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jagnut66 wrote:Hi,
Hopefully if enough people visit these overpriced restoration projects and walk away, they might get the message eventually that they're just being unrealistic and greedy!!
Best wishes,
Mike.

Couldn't agree more, Mike. Unfortunately, there always seems to be someone who will buy them thinking they're getting a bargain thus encouraging the bilkers . People will see "restored by Charles Ware", but forget that the restoration was 15 years ago, and a lot can go wrong in that time (especially if it's been used a lot for weddings, as suggested by the ribbons). It's a shame, as in the photos she does look good.

David.

jagnut66 wrote: they might get the message eventually that they're just being unrealistic and greedy!!

Some owners just don't have any idea how much their car is worth, others have 'rose coloured specs' and genuinely think it is in a lot better condition and worth more than it is. To be fair to the seller of this car, she did say in her posts here that she had no idea how much it was worth and didn't know much about selling cars. She suggested a price of £4k as that was a similar figure to the amount that someone had previously offered for it.

randomafterthought wrote: (especially if it's been used a lot for weddings, as suggested by the ribbons).

The seller says that it was used for her daughter's wedding in May '11, and PhilR states that the car hadn't been used for a year when he viewed it (in May '12), so that's probably a more likely explanation for why it has ribbons on in the photos.

Yes, the owner admitted that she hadnt used it for over a year, since her daughter got married. I think it was used for the wedding, then driven straight into storage and left. I got the impression the dents to the body were caused by things being stored against it and on its roof. The damage to the paint was mainly around the leading edges and down to bare metal especially where it meets the wood, no doubt done by whoever carelessly sanded the wood back with an electric sander!! The owner seemed very confused as to whether she actually wanted to sell it. My friend (a fellow club member) was keen to buy it and made a genuine offer based on what needed to be done to the car, but if I'm honest, she messed him about a little, which was disappointing as he would have genuinely bought it.
I agree with the comments about people thinking they have a car which is far better than it is. I think there are a lot of people jumping on the ridiculous dealer prices bandwagon at the moment. Regardless of whoever the car was previously restored by, IMHO you can only look at a car in its present condition and make an offer accordingly.

LouiseM wrote: Some owners just don't have any idea how much their car is worth, others have 'rose coloured specs' and genuinely think it is in a lot better condition and worth more than it is. To be fair to the seller of this car, she did say in her posts here that she had no idea how much it was worth and didn't know much about selling cars. She suggested a price of £4k as that was a similar figure to the amount that someone had previously offered for it.

Absolutely, and this highlights exactly the point being made by Jagnut. The market (particularly round here) is often based around greed, ignorance and the large number of people with a surfeit of cash. I think the general gist that was perhaps strongly driven was "buyer beware". Emma is doing exactly the right thing - asking for advice, and that given was that it was a high price for what was on offer.

The fact is that seller was politely advised on here of the faults and someone had suggested the £3k mark (albeit based on photos alone at that time). She was then allegedly offered £4k (she steadfastly wanted £5k), the later "£4k no offers" speaks volumes (it's down to £3800 now, with no sign of that mystery £4k buyer).

LouiseM wrote: The seller says that it was used for her daughter's wedding in May '11, and PhilR states that the car hadn't been used for a year when he viewed it (in May '12), so that's probably a more likely explanation for why it has ribbons on in the photos.

The advert Emma referred to lists that the car was used "for family weddings - no longer needed" which paints a different picture. These are the kind of things that people need think about, because context is everything. It is a hangover from my job to look at the given situation and see what could be happening between the lines.

Sure, the ribbon made the car look very cute - but not all purchasers are going to read through this forum and see the sellers threads, rather they will base their decision on the advert and a (potentially wasted) visit where they see the true nature of the car.

Members of this forum politely tried to guide her to a realistic price and in this case the reality may be slowly setting in. There will be many other cases, however, where the cycle is perpetuated by someone rushing in and buying at the vastly inflated and unrealistic price because they don't know what the true value is. In this case, the seller was given a reasonable amount of guidance which she chose to ignore. That's not rose tinted specs - that's greed or financial desperation.

David.

randomafterthought wrote: Members of this forum politely tried to guide her to a realistic price. In this case, the seller was given a reasonable amount of guidance which she chose to ignore. That's not rose tinted specs - that's greed or financial desperation.

Someone suggested "£3k plus", and the member who had actually viewed the car said, in relation to the £5k asked for, “I think you are being a little optimistic” but did not actually suggest what a realistic price might be. Following those comments the seller reduced the price to £4k, and said that she had been checking internet prices but was still unsure how much to ask for it. As we know, internet prices for Minors in similar condition can vary widely. So arguably she didn't really receive "a reasonable amount of guidance" here in relation to what a realistic price might be, nor did she "choose to ignore" the guidance given as she reduced the £5k price when a member suggested it was a little optimistic.

It is a hangover from my job to look at the given situation and see what could be happening between the lines.

In my job it’s a matter of looking at the actual facts before making assumptions or jumping to conclusions. It’s been suggested that the seller is being “unrealistic and greedy” and that the car has “been used a lot for weddings” so I just wanted to balance out those comments by pointing out that this may not actually be the case. A bit of balance on internet forums isn't necessarily a bad thing

Emma has done exactly the right thing by asking for advice here, and there is a ‘sticky’ here and in the 'for sale' forum advising potential buyers that they must thoroughly inspect a vehicle before buying it and if they are not familiar with Minors to take someone with them who is. The problem is that not everyone will ask for advice so members posting up comments in the original ‘for sale’ ad such as “she looks an absolute beaut”, “wish I had the money to buy her as she looks in good nick to me” or “does look good for the money” as posted in response to Emma’s request for advice here - comments which are based entirely on looking at a few photos - aren't actually being helpful to potential inexperienced Minor buyers.

The problem I have is that in the past, I have been heavily criticised for making what I considered to be 'fair comment' on items advertised in this forum. Fair game if they are advertised elsewhere/ebay - but nothing negative to be said about items on this forum. So we have to work around that - with gentle hints and PMs !!

bmcecosse wrote:The problem I have is that in the past, I have been heavily criticised for making what I considered to be 'fair comment' on items advertised in this forum. Fair game if they are advertised elsewhere/ebay - but nothing negative to be said about items on this forum.

There's nothing wrong with fair & balanced comments but to suggest that a member who clearly has no idea what their car is worth is being "greedy" for advertising it at £4k - based on the advice offered here that it was worth more than £3k but less than £5k -is hardly fair & balanced. Due to the number of complaints received from members who have advertised items for sale a 'sticky' was posted to advise people on how best to respond to adverts: http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30822

jagnut66 wrote: Based on PhilR's viewing though, she is selling a car with no MOT, that very probably requires structural welding, at least a partial respray and some of the interior replacing to make a matching set. Then you'll need new tyres and anything else it may require for an MOT.

As the seller has stated in her ad, it now has 10 months MOT.

PhilR is the only person here who appears to be in a position to provide a realistic price for the car so perhaps he will let us know?