Morris Minor Owners Club

Hi guys,

Did something a bit silly this eve. Forgot that I left my car in reverse (parked on a slope you see!) and started Betty up (1098 convertible). Well, she did the usual and jerk, then continued to make an awful vibrating noise for at least 3 mins. I turned the ignition off but the noise carried on, opened up the bonnet and could see nothing going on? noise then stopped after approx 3 mins (seemed like a lifetime!). Turned the ignition and she started up straight away and drove away perfectly. Started her up again a bit later and she was fine. Any ideas what might have happend and whether I might have caused some damage? Need to go on a bit of a long journey tomorrow and bit worried. Also, while I'm going on, there is also a noise from one of the rear wheels (squeaky noise as wheel goes around?). The noise only starts after about half an hour and is quite load? apart from that...she's perfec!

Ta muchly

morris can usually handle someone trying to start in gear.
its been done loads of times in different gears i am sure.
ive done it a few.
not sure what the noise could be, rear brake shoes relaxing due to handbrake being on and the engine trying to turn the wheels. not sure. i am sure you drive will b ok. starter is under the most load when that happens. squeak could be shoe stuck, or drum rubbing on somthing. wheels got to come of and have a look. if it squeaks on your drive tomorrow stop and let it cool off.

As it late and your off tomorrow i'll comment although i'm not really that experianced on minor matters. Even so, I can only assume that because she statred ok again, twice, then no real damage has been done or if it had you'd know it by now. I think somone with experiance will see this thread and help. They may want to know where the noise/vibration appeared to be coming from.

Doris wrote:, she did the usual and jerk, then continued to make an awful vibrating noise for at least 3 mins.

I suspect the start has not fully retracted.
This is very common on well loved engines where the teeth are worn on the fly wheel. And not a big deal.

Tip: If the starter does jam stick the car in 4th gear and rock the car back and forth until it frees or try the starter handle (but requires more arm strength).

Also check to make sure that the starter motor bolts (2 of) are nice and tight.

Regards

Grant.

then continued to make an awful vibrating noise for at least 3 mins. I turned the ignition off but the noise carried on, opened up the bonnet and could see nothing going on? noise then stopped after approx 3 mins

Jo can you be a bit more specific (or give me a call ) as I am completly puzzled at what was moving up to 3 minutes after you had switched of, its not going to be a starter motor and the only thing is a bit of overrun but not for 3 minutes !
And I think Mark is right as regards a squeaky brake, your long journey might sort it out.

I am completly puzzled at what was moving up to 3 minutes after you had switched off

same here - would be interested to know a bit more.

yea ive was puzzled by the 3 min noise. still thinking.
wonder how the long drive went?

I would imagine that, because the car was in reverse it caused
the starter dog to become jammed in the' Engaged' position
because the engine didn't gain enough revs to throw the dog
back out of engagement as normal.
So that for 'three minutes' the starter dog was being turned by
the engine thus making a noise because the entire starter motor was being turnedby the flywheel until it finally freed itself and
backed out of engagement?

Wille he mentions turning the ignition off, and the noise still there.
i still dont get it.

Whoops, Mark I know you didnt know but Jo is actually a female.

Oh, missed the "Turned the ignition off" bit. So the noise continued
with the engine off?? Strange indeed. Teaches everyone to
always depress the clutch when starting a car though!

But I never depress the clutch when starting Rebecca, she's a right bugger to start with the clutch depressed (particularly in the summer), but with the clutch engaged she'll start first time pretty much every time.....

Same here Kate. I always make sure the car is in neutral (a habit you get into after driving cars with non-existant handbrakes so you always have to leave them in gear) and start it with the clutch engaged.

Just never ask a powertrain engineer about starting with the clutch pressed - it'll end up in a long technical debate.
Basically you will be putting over a thousand Newtons onto the crankshaft thrust bearings when there is not enough lubrication on them. Declutching during starting IS recommended by a lot of vehicle manufacturers, but if you are 100% sure that the car is not in gear then if you don't want to declutch it's probaly better (expect there's no such thing as 100% sure, but that's a different story)
Personally having driven far too many different cars over the years I de-clutch just by habit.

I de-clutch just by habit

Same here, and while I have driven many different cars I won't add "over the years" (that sounds too old).

Then again I've never come across a car that likes its clutch engaged on startup.

Another point. NEVER rely on the handbrake on its own to secure a
parked car. The cables can snap at any time. I once,with another
passer-by had to stop a car which was gently rolling down a hill
ouside Luton station because the handbrake had ceased to hold it.
We left it gently resting on a lamp post! Always leave the car in
gear too. Another reason for depressing the clutch before starting.
PYOOR KATE
If your car won't start with the clutch depressed then you either have
far too much drag in the gearbox or your battery is on the way out.
(If you notice that the car seems to fire up only at the instant that
you let go of the starter it is a sure sign of too low a voltage whilst
the starter is in use).

old pre unit triumph motorcycles. they need to be kicked over with the clutch pressed to start.

NEVER rely on the handbrake on its own to secure a parked car. The cables can snap at any time.

OR the brakes can cool down (especially with rear discs) shrink, release and the car can roll off!

If your car won't start with the clutch depressed then you either have far too much drag in the gearbox

?? The gearbox is disengaged when the clutch is depressed. The clutch plate is stationary and the flywheel and cover is rotating around it.

If it won't start when the clutch is depressed then maybe the clutch is not disengaging all the way (draging a bit) or the carbon thrust bearing is causing some drag due to it being worn maybe??

CAM, yes of course I know that the gearbox is disengaged when
the clutch is operated buy why I wrote it is another matter! I'll
have a little rest and see if my brain re-engages!

With the clutch depressed the engine turns over swiftly, but simply won't catch. Or at least, *sometimes* it'll catch, but it's much, much harder and on one occasion I actually managed to run my battery down to the stage where it could not start the car, after about 15 minutes of soild attempts to start with the clutch down.

I don't quite see why leaving the car in gear while parked is a reason to depress the clutch when starting, because even when starting with the clutch depressed (as I tend to in other peoples / modern cars), I still move it to be out of gear first.....

Nor can I see why (and someone'll have to explain this to me) - the car not starting with the clutch depressed leads to a suggestion of too much drag in the gearbox... Surely, when the clutch *is* depressed the gearbox would be (essentially) disconnected. If the clutch isn't disengaging properly then the gearbox would be 'dragging'. But either situation, there would be less effect than with the clutch fully engaged (which is how I start my car).

But anyway, my battery is quite definately fine... and I won't believe it's a gearbox issue until someone explains it to me... and since my car starts first time, incredibly easily with the cluch up I'm unlikely to worry about it